Child Sickness and time off

mad_angler1

Hi guys am after some help. The wife works for a large highstreet retailer, been there 10 years and never had any time off untill our first child was born in 2010. This year she has had to take 3 incidences of sickness for the baby being ill and has had 2 of here own. These periods have been one or two days max and have been unforeseen.

The most recent was last week due to the Norovirus hitting every one in the house.

Every time she has had the time off because of the baby she has mad it clear its was for the child and not her.

Now because she has had 5 separate periods of time off they are giving her a verbal warning.

According to the Gov website a perant is entitled to time of for dependants and should not be disadvantaged or punished for it.

Any advice in this as she is very upset

firesidemaid

how was the time taken off for your child's sickness?

it should have been either carer's leave (if available), annual leave or unpaid leave - as agreed with her manager.

it sounds like it has all been recorded as sick leave.

do you have other options for future incidences, such as sharing the time off to look after you child if unwell, or can a relative or friend step in at all?

mad_angler1

She always informed them before her shift, as she is part time it was always better for he to take the time rather than me,

They were always told when she returned hand had her back to work interview (required after every sickness event) if it was here or the baby. She work 6am to 10am. 4 hours a day.

Uncertain

mad_angler1 wrote: »

According to the Gov website a perant is entitled to time of for dependants and should not be disadvantaged or punished for it.

Any advice in this as she is very upset

She is entitled to SHORT periods of unpaid leave for emergencies involving dependants.

The law doesn't define short or emergency.

This is generally taken to mean time to make arrangements, not to do the caring herself.

Obviously you also have the same entitlement. Has this been shared between you?

firesidemaid

from an employer's point of view, it's not a matter of 'informing' them it's about asking for permission.

we would not expect a member of staff to take time off as sick to look after a child - generally would be annual leave, unpaid or toil.

if it is taken a sick, it is potentially fraud so to speak. she should not need a back to work interview if she hasn't been sick.

also, as an employer we would expect this kind of emergency time off to be shared by the parents.

it looks like it has all been recorded as sickness and now she will have fallen foul of the sickness policy.

Uncertain

firesidemaid wrote: »

from an employer's point of view, it's not a matter of 'informing' them it's about asking for permission.

No it is not if the employee is exercising the right to short periods of unpaid leave for an emergency involving a dependent. Almost by definition, it is not possible to ask permission in such circumstances.

firesidemaid

also, if her hours are 6 to 10 and she rings in on the day, it puts the employer in a difficult position to try and cover that.

what timeframe are the 5 sickness incidents over? that is a lot of incidents, it doesn't matter how long they are.

when she rings in when the child is sick, who is she speaking to (ie. how senior)? who makes the decision when your child is ill to take the leave as sickness?

firesidemaid

Uncertain wrote: »

No it is not if the employee is exercising the right to short periods of unpaid leave for an emergency involving a dependent. Almost by definition, it is not possible to ask permission in such circumstances.

ok, i probably mean to use courtesy then. but as you say, unpaid leave.

OP, was any of this 'sickness' leave she took paid or unpaid?

mad_angler1

It's either 4 or 5 in periods of no more that 2 days since January, her job is back office stock admin so she is not covered when she is off. She could have a week off and it would not affect things as what she does can be caught up later.

Of the 4/5 I beleive 3 were for the baby and 1/ 2 for here.

The most recent last week we were all off due to Norovirue(not pretty)


This is what Iv found on Leave for dependants

Time Off for Dependants
All employees are entitled to take a reasonable amount of time off to deal with certain prescribed emergencies involving certain dependants. This leave is called Time Off for Dependants. Time Off for Dependants can be taken, for example, if a dependant falls ill or is injured, if care arrangements break down, or to arrange or attend a dependant's funeral. A dependant is the child (including adopted child), husband, wife or parent of the employee. It also includes someone who lives in the same household as the employee, and someone who reasonably relies on the employee, such as an elderly relative.
There is no legal definition of what would be a reasonable amount of time off but the time taken must be necessary and reasonable in the particular circumstances. For example, the employee might take time off to deal with the immediate problem and make longer term arrangements but it is unlikely to be reasonable to take off any more time than that.
Time Off for Dependants is not paid, however you may decide to offer pay.
As Time Off for Dependants is for unforeseen circumstances, an employee does not need to give you advance warning.The employee must let you know the reason for the absence as soon as reasonably practicable and must tell you how long they think they will be absent.
You must not unreasonably refuse an employee the time off.
You must not subject the employee to a disadvantage or dismiss them for a reason connected with taking Time Off for Dependants.
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Relevant legislation
Parental leave
Employment Rights Act 1996
Employment Relations Act 1999
Employment Act 2002
Maternity and Parental Leave etc Regulations 1999
Time Off for Dependants
Employment Rights Act 1996
Employment Relations Act 1999

Uncertain

Which is exactly what you have been told on this thread.

The bottom line is that she has been absent for about ten working days in ten months. With many employers this will trigger a review.

That is not to say that, when they are reminded of the circumstances, there will be any problem.

As I mentioned earlier it would be perfectly reasonable for her employers to ask if the time off for child's sickness has been shared between you.

Part time staff have the same legal rights as full time but with this comes the same responsibilities.

mad_angler1

Its 7 days in total I beleive in 5 periods. The stupid thing is if she had 3 months off in one hit it would not matter.

She has been told she will be receiving a official warning on Monday regarding this time off. As far as they are concerned it all classed as sickness.