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Train Guard Jailed
Comments
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No
Sorry all! posted original as an opinion/view which was asked for, not to get into arguments with others with different views.Thankyou to Jeff Bridges Hairs reply. Is this an opinion or experts. Can you give us your relevant experience? I have none only an opinion. Which when wrong will amend given correct info. That is why I left it open for a railway expert to correct.
Originally Posted by Hasbeen
If i am correct?
In these trains the door controls are operated from the vestible.
Guard stands on platform ensures no one is late entering or leaving, then closes all doors except the one he is at.
Once all clear he closes that door.
Guard did testify that she had moved away prior to closing last door.Was released in court that he changed this statement as CCTV proved it not true.
Can you show us where this is reported?
Signal to driver to depart, closes door control panel and moves into back cab where there is an opening window to observe platform.The door control panel is right by the window he is looking out of for this very reason to ensure a safe dispatch
What type of unit is this? I have only ever seen Guards at vestible doors
He sees girl back banging on/leaning on side of train rushes back to controls and gives emergency stop signal (to late)Doesnt have to rush anywhere on those units as the controls are right beside where he is leaning out of so his fingers should always be on the panel when carrying out his dispatch duties
As above what type of unit is this?
Up to a few years ago it was mandatory to remain at door controls to give emergency signal, this requirement was done away with by the Train Company's in the rule book.Has it now? Could you show me where this was removed from the rule book as I dont believe you. In fact it is still in the rule book IIRC for trains that have guards and not DOO
Sorry you do not believe me. Removed in Oct 2007. For power operated doors. Please see RSSB Site GERT8000/SS1 Rule book section 8.3
Where they removed, Remain at door until train has passed clear of platform
8.3
Starting a train with power-operateddoors that are operated by a guardYou must close the doors, except the local door from where thetrain is being worked.
After the train doors are closed
When you have closed the doors, you must:
•
where appropriate, check the door interlock light is lit•
position yourself on the platform so that you can see the wholelength of the train.
From this position, you must carry out the train safety check.
If it is safe for the train to start, you must:•
close the local door•
where appropriate, check the door interlock light is lit•
give the READY-TO-START signal to the driver•
make sure the door controls are secured.I was surprised to even see guard was looking out of window as there is no rules to even do this.Yes, yes there arePlease point us to the relevent part of the up to date rule book
From site Train Duties and Despatch/Power operated doorsRe above it would be more helpful to see actually what happened rather than one picture which shows at the moment wrongly the guard not at the best re public opinion.This still was taken from the 30 second of CCTV footage shown to the court during the trial, also which showed her leaning against the door all the time and he was looking at her - even when he gave the signal to move.Sorry! did not see that bit, can you point out court statement or is this taken from the so called news papersPerhaps railway/train expert could correct or comment?
That is why perhaps some more experts can share their interpretation / opinion on this?
Still think this was an accident waiting to happen especially on late trains at weekends where intoxocated people cannot even stand and stagger about unmanned platforms = Due to cuts in staff.
Also in view of some of the punishments handed down by the courts these days, this judgement to me does seem a little harsh.:(The world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon0 -
NoPlease see link below,
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-mr-j-holroyde-r-v-mcgee.pdfThe world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon0 -
"position yourself on the platform so that you can see the whole length of the train.
From this position, you must carry out the train safety check.
If it is safe for the train to start, you must:"
Hasbeen - you seem to be suggesting that there is no requirement to look out of the window - that would appear to be correct based on what you have quoted, simply because he should have been out of the train to do the safety check (based on what you have posted) and therefore looking out of the window is a less safe approach.
From what I have read, she was at no point truly clear of the train, but the guard gave the signal without any regard to this.
Her death was entirely preventable; being drunk/drugged does not diminish this - it could have been an elderly person having a dizzy spell, someone with physical disabilities or just anyone having a moment of distraction.
The guard might be suffering, but he brought it on himself. :cool:0 -
YesThankyou to Jeff Bridges Hairs reply. Is this an opinion or experts. Can you give us your relevant experience? I have none only an opinion. Which when wrong will amend given correct info. That is why I left it open for a railway expert to correct.Old man has worked as a guard for the last 20 years since he left navy and ive been enthusiast since a bairn
Originally Posted by Hasbeen
If i am correct?
In these trains the door controls are operated from the vestible.
Guard stands on platform ensures no one is late entering or leaving, then closes all doors except the one he is at.
Once all clear he closes that door.
Guard did testify that she had moved away prior to closing last door.Was released in court that he changed this statement as CCTV proved it not true.
Can you show us where this is reported?
Though im sure one story said he then changed his statement about it but cant find itMcGee told police and his bosses at Merseyrail that Georgia had moved away from the train before he signalled to driver Belinda Nicholson it was safe to pull out of the station.
He said the train set off but Georgia, who was wearing high heels, came back and started banging on the windows before she fell between the platform and the train onto the tracks.
Mr Johnson played the jury a 30 second CCTV video of Georgia which he claimed shows that she was leaning against the train when it moved out.
Signal to driver to depart, closes door control panel and moves into back cab where there is an opening window to observe platform.The door control panel is right by the window he is looking out of for this very reason to ensure a safe dispatch
What type of unit is this? I have only ever seen Guards at vestible doorsCl507/8. They dispatch from the cab end at the rear all times IIRC
He sees girl back banging on/leaning on side of train rushes back to controls and gives emergency stop signal (to late)Doesnt have to rush anywhere on those units as the controls are right beside where he is leaning out of so his fingers should always be on the panel when carrying out his dispatch duties
As above what type of unit is this?
Up to a few years ago it was mandatory to remain at door controls to give emergency signal, this requirement was done away with by the Train Company's in the rule book.Has it now? Could you show me where this was removed from the rule book as I dont believe you. In fact it is still in the rule book IIRC for trains that have guards and not DOO
Sorry you do not believe me. Removed in Oct 2007. For power operated doors. Please see RSSB Site GERT8000/SS1 Rule book section 8.3
Where they removed, Remain at door until train has passed clear of platform
8.3
Starting a train with power-operated
doors that are operated by a guardYou must close the doors, except the local door from where the
train is being worked.
After the train doors are closed
When you have closed the doors, you must:
•
where appropriate, check the door interlock light is lit
•
position yourself on the platform so that you can see the whole
length of the train.From this position, you must carry out the train safety check.
If it is safe for the train to start, you must:
•
close the local door
•
where appropriate, check the door interlock light is lit
•
give the READY-TO-START signal to the driver
•
make sure the door controls are secured.
Thats the general rule book which I believe had it removed due to more and more units being made that did not facilitate the guard to look out.
I was surprised to even see guard was looking out of window as there is no rules to even do this.Yes, yes there arePlease point us to the relevent part of the up to date rule bookMerseyrail as well as Northern trains and other TOCs that use this sort of dis-patch will actually have it in their rule book on top of the general rule book - alas I cant find it online
From site Train Duties and DespatchRe above it would be more helpful to see actually what happened rather than one picture which shows at the moment wrongly the guard not at the best re public opinion.This still was taken from the 30 second of CCTV footage shown to the court during the trial, also which showed her leaning against the door all the time and he was looking at her - even when he gave the signal to move.Sorry! did not see that bit, can you point out court statement or is this taken from the so called news papers
Mr Johnson played the jury a 30 second CCTV video of Georgia which he claimed shows that she was leaning against the train when it moved out
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228306/Georgia-Varley-Drunk-schoolgirl-16-high-party-drug-died-falling-train-guard-blew-whistle.html#ixzz2CP5nioEZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on FacebookPerhaps railway/train expert could correct or comment?
If you want a full low down on the rule book for up there then best to go over to Rail forums and ask the question there about them having to lean out to watch during dispatch ats there are guards who use that forum. This is all what ive been told and what I understand about the dispatch process for Merseyrail Electrics."If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna0 -
Yes, although not such a harsh one!In this sort of court case, gross negligence manslaughter, there will have been proper experts on both sides in the case. To prove this charge, the level of criminality is really high - grossly negligent to a degree where it must be categorised as criminal. Convictions are relatively rare.
Given the conviction was returned by the jury, you can speculate as much as you like about what the rules are, but you can be sure that the jury will have heard the actual experts.0 -
YesSimilar thing happened to a friend of mine a few years back, he lived but spent a long time on hospital.
Tried suing the train company but they defended on the basis it was such a gross act it was outside his employment and thus he was not acting on their behalf and the TOC were not liable. His solicitors were not confident on winning due to this and other matters they wanted money up front. My friend gave up as he was exhausted by this and the hospital treatment.0 -
The fact that he read a pre-prepared statement at each interview with the police and answered “no comment” to further questions, tells me all I need to know.0
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Yes, although not such a harsh one!Not wishing to digress but this one was recently publicised..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-20356524
Kids trespass,one gets electrocuted. Seems unfair on the rail company.Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..0 -
C_Mababejive wrote: »Not wishing to digress but this one was recently publicised..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-20356524
Kids trespass,one gets electrocuted. Seems unfair on the rail company.
Rail company knows that kids trespass, and does nothing to stop them, whilst leaving a 250,000 volt power cable accessible.
Doesn't seem too unfair to me.0 -
That case reads just like British Eailways Board v Herrington, 1972. A leading case in the law of trespass. No wonder they were fined.0
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