Help - brother incurring increased debt on inherited property

marie1975_2

Hello,

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rpc

If the property is still inside the estate, then the estate should be paying the mortgage. The estate could also (I think) charge market rent to your brother. Neither of you own the flat until probate finishes and ownership is transferred to you. Are you also the executors?

On the market for 3 years normally means a totally unrealistic price is being asked or that there is something else seriously wrong.

RAS

Who is the executor named in the will (or executors)?

What is the current value of the flat?

What is the mortgage deficit? What was the deficit at the time of the death?

Why has the probate company not organised the mortgage payment as they are doing the probate?

marie1975_2

Hello, thank you

RAS

Hi can you take the name of the company out of your post as some of my comments may be harsh.

marie1975 wrote: »

Hello, thank you for your reply - I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

Who is the executor named in the will (or executors)?

My Uncle was named executor - he is very elderly and has been very ill so he signed a letter last year to confirm the probate company should deal with my brother and I directly in future.

Legally uncle is responsible for this debacle. He is remiss in allowing debts to build up.

Has uncle renounced his executorship in favour of the parobate company or just employed them?

If he has employed them, you need to start by getting a copy of the form needed for an executor to renounce their status and go for letters of administration with will. I sugggest that you do this, rather than doing it jointly with your brother.

What is the current value of the flat? Is has been revised to £47k. I think orginal price was £60k. Probate company was originally marketing the property, until we decided to put it through a local agent ourselves.

You need to know what charges the probate company have added to the account as their failure to finalise this over 5 years is seruious and no doubt they are charging an arm and leg for every action. have you checked their current fees on-line?

What is the mortgage deficit? What was the deficit at the time of the death?
When Dad died the balance was £22,337.60. On statement received yesterday it is £23,424.15

For the sake of arguement I will assume that you sell at £47K. So £23k+ is left over. Brother will get 11.5K less the £1100 deficit for which he is responsible and you get the extra £1100.

Why has the probate company not organised the mortgage payment as they are doing the probate?

I don't know why this was not arranged originally. At present I would say because there is no money in the estate - the probate company paid out any monies there were to my brother and I - I would estimate this was about a year after Dad's death, from his insurance and savings accounts as I recall.

This is supposed to be a probate company. The most basic thing about probate is that you pay off all the debts BEFORE you distribute any money at all. They should know that the estate is responsible for paying the mortgage and that they needed enough in the executors account to cover that until the sale went through!

Seruiously - are they covered by ANY professional body?
I don't recall there every having been any suggestion made that the probate company could/would arrange to pay the mortgage.

They now simply write to us periodically (perhaps twice a year) asking if any update on sale of the property and advising "Once the property has been sold, I will be in a position to settle the debts of the estate. We will then calculate the amount due to each beneficiary and send final accounts for approval."

They should not have paid out eanythign in these circumstances.

marie1975_2

Many thanks for your reply.

daska

The probate company should have advised that the estate was liable for all debts and should not have distributed any monies to beneficiaries while there were debts mounting. Having said that, who agreed that they should distribute the funds, was it done because your uncle instructed them to and assured them that the mortgage payments were covered?

The other thing that concerns me is that the probate company didn't advise you on formalising your position with the probate service.

Tbh I think I would kick them into touch, the probate service will give advice on the mechanisms for doing this, presumably your uncle will sign the relevant paperwork?

Then, with your brother's agreement, put the house up for auction, yes you'll get less but the bills will be settled and the worry ended.

loubel

Your uncle cannot simply walk away from his responsibilities as executor and I'm concerned that the probate company acting for him do not appear to have made this clear to him.

Write to the company and and tell them that you have concerns over the administration of the estate and ask them to take instruction from your uncle as a matter of urgency to bring matters to a conclusion.

If no progress is made then you will need to consider applying to the Courts to have your uncle replaced as executor.

RAS

I think you need to ring your nearest local Probate Office and ask to speak to someone there. They are very good at helping people work their way through the legalities.

marie1975 wrote: »

Last year as he was in particularly poor health we asked if the probate company were able to deal directly with us - they advised they would require written confirmation from my uncle that he no longer wished them to liaise with him with regards to the administration of the estate and that he would like them to correspond directly with my brother and I as residuary beneficiaries. My brother organised the letter and as far as I'm aware my uncle has had no further involvement.

You need to know exactly what was in that letter.

Did the letter just allow your and your brother to deal with the probate company (as attorneys) or did your uncle renounce his executorship? If he renouced his executorship, who was appointed administrator(s).

You need to know because

• if you are attorneys, uncle is still legally liable for the mess,
• if your brother is the administrator, your hands are tied
• if you are joint administrators, you are jointly responsible for the mess.

rpc

I do not think the exectutor could renounce in the circumstances described by OP. They can only renounce if they have not touched the estate (no "intermeddling"). The estate has clearly been touched as bequests have been distributed.

OP and brother cannot be executors but they could be attorneys. Executor is still the uncle and only a court can change that, but it sounds like he has been badly advised by professionals he appointed to help.

Fire_Fox

This all sounds very dodgy indeed, someone is failing in their duties and not following protocol. What qualifications do the staff at the 'probate company' have - are you dealing with unqualified amateurs or genuine legal professionals? A fixed price with amateurs could be a false economy that costs you thousands if the flat is repossessed. They are doing very little because you are paying them very little.

I agree I don't think an executor can simply renounce anything with a simple letter, the legal responsibilities of executorship remains with you until your death or until you are removed legally.

Your brother should never have been paying the mortgage directly, he should have been a proper tenant paying rent with the estate as his landlord. You are not liable for a mortgage or loan that is not in your name, the estate is, and it should not affect your own mortgage or credit file.