Letter to Landlord regarding Vacating. Please look it over?

Fire_Fox

BrandNewDay wrote: »

I wanted to try and make everybody happy, but the truth is, all I can do is what I'm able to do. I will clean and repair to the best of my ability. I'll replace the TV with a similar but cheaper one. And then I'll leave it all at that. I don't mind losing the whole deposit. I just don't want to spend significantly more than the deposit on top of that. I'll replace the TV and a broken lampshade and then I'll clean (wash walls and shampoo carpets) because that's the decent thing to do. The rest is up to them. If they need to spend more than the deposit to get the house back to the way it looks in the inventory photos, then they can do that. But, I don't think that will be possible.

I could leave the TV off, but I just don't feel right doing that.

I do know this: I won't accept a CD ROM inventory, again. I think it's a good supplement to an inventory, but the next time I move, I am going to get IN WRITING every single thing. Every mark, every stain, every tiny bit of flaking or peeling.

Luckily, next time we won't be desperate for anything we can get. I can and will walk away from anything that is not satisfactory BEFORE the lease is signed. I had no choice but to take this place as it was literally the only viable house for rent within 30 miles of my husband's job. We're moving into a large urban area with lots of options and we can be more careful next time.

You are completely misunderstanding your legal rights and responsibilities as a tenant, please adhere to all the legislation and take care of your landlord's possessions - inventoried or otherwise - handing them back in the state you found them (minus fair wear and tear).

Tenants don't need that level of inventory, the landlord does. It is not for you to prove you did not damage the walls or carpets it is for the landlord to prove that you did. There is nothing inherently wrong with a CD ROM inventory. The deposit schemes are quite clear on this and there really is no reason to suspect you will lose your whole deposit if you clean and repair what you know you have dirtied or damaged to the best of your ability. If they try to make unfair deductions MSE will happily help you dispute them. The landlord cannot charge you for getting the property back to the exact condition at the start of the tenancy - again they can charge for dirty or damage BUT NOT fair wear and tear.

However you have a moral obligation to replace the television with the same brand and spec of product, or repair the screen which may well be cheaper. I think you are being unreasonable not to when you admit that it was brand new and the damage was entirely down to your child. It is nothing to do with any wear and tear on the rest of the property. It's just as unreasonable to effectively leave your landlord out of pocket for your mistakes as it is for your landlord to try to leave you out of pocket for their mistakes. :mad:

Fire_Fox

rpc wrote: »

Why shouldn't OP put items in the shed if that is the landlord's instruction? As long as the OP can prove that the landlord told them to store furniture in the shed, I don't see what OP has done wrong. The shed was the LL's idea, not the OP's.

"I followed the instructions given by the LL" should be a suitable defence against any claim for damage or deterioration.

The landlord said loft or shed not simply shed, it is not even clear this is in writing nor clear that the tenant has formally informed the landlord how much the sheds have deteriorated. I clearly specified "furniture nor perishable personal property" and stand by that, there is no issue putting items that are weather/ cold/ damp hardy in a shed.

BrandNewDay

Fire_Fox wrote: »

You are completely misunderstanding your legal rights and responsibilities as a tenant, please adhere to all the legislation and take care of your landlord's possessions - inventoried or otherwise - handing them back in the state you found them (minus fair wear and tear).

Tenants don't need that level of inventory, the landlord does. It is not for you to prove you did not damage the walls or carpets it is for the landlord to prove that you did. There is nothing inherently wrong with a CD ROM inventory. The deposit schemes are quite clear on this and there really is no reason to suspect you will lose your whole deposit if you clean and repair what you know you have dirtied or damaged to the best of your ability. If they try to make unfair deductions MSE will happily help you dispute them. The landlord cannot charge you for getting the property back to the exact condition at the start of the tenancy - again they can charge for dirty or damage BUT NOT fair wear and tear.

However you have a moral obligation to replace the television with the same brand and spec of product, or repair the screen which may well be cheaper. I think you are being unreasonable not to when you admit that it was brand new and the damage was entirely down to your child. It is nothing to do with any wear and tear on the rest of the property. It's just as unreasonable to effectively leave your landlord out of pocket for your mistakes as it is for your landlord to try to leave you out of pocket for their mistakes. :mad:

Thank you for your reply. I believe that you are right. I always try to do the right thing.

It only came up in the conversation with the landlord because the chair that was broken. It was old when we moved in and a new one from Ikea costs £250, and she said not to buy a new one as it was used. They'll figure out what to do. I don't know how that works - if it needs replacing, then it needs replacing, right? Anyway, the TV costs nearly £300 for that exact model. She told me over the phone that she would be happy with one from Tesco that is the same size and is £150. I don't know, though, if a verbal agreement is the right way to go about it. I suppose I should email her and ask her to reply and confirm that the model of TV I send a link to will be acceptable. After all, if she wants to agree to that, then that's nice of her.

We called a repair guy and he said that it would be cheaper to buy a new TV than to repair it.

As for the belongings in the shed. Well, like I said, we did what they told us to do and they've even had a look inside the shed in the last few months. If the furniture is damaged, then we'll have to pay for that. Other than the baby bonnets and maybe some old papers, I think all the personal belongings are vitreous things like dishes.

Fire_Fox

The landlord cannot claim new for old from a tenant, carpets for example the life expectancy is five years so they can only claim a percentage even if you made a massive iron burn. If the chair is old and broke in normal use they may not be able to claim anything or just a token amount.

As I said MSE would be very happy to help you use the dispute system in the event the landlord tries to make unfair deductions. It is very much in your favour if the inventory is not detailed. The deposit protection scheme was designed to protect tenants from shyster landlords just running off with deposits or getting a full house redecoration for free.

Yes get that in writing about the television and keep copies of all correspondence.

BrandNewDay

Just asking: why should I get the thing about the TV in writing, if the existence of the TV is not in writing to begin with?

I have no idea how they will deal with the chair. It was definitely not new. I think it may have broken (bent underneath) because it was old. But, who is to say? I just know that if they want to put the same sort of chair/bed thing in that room, it's going to cost them £250.

And, the same for the walls. If they were yellowed with time, to the point where I can't touch them up, then do I have to pay for a whole new paint job? Or do I leave that to them and they can claim for PART of it (or not at all, if they choose not to paint.) For that matter, must they prove that the painting took place? This is why, in the future, I will want a clear record of everything.

If my kids take a biro to old, yellowed vinyl wallpaper that is starting to peel away from the wall, I will feel like I owe something, but I need it to be very clear that the wallpaper wasn't new when we moved in.

G_M

The lack of a written inventory is to your advantage, and the LL's disadvantage, since he cannot prove either the existance or condition of items at the start of the tenancy without it - unless clearly on the CDROM.

I agree storing items in a (broken) shed is un-tenantlike if they are likely to suffer from the damp. Unless there is a clear, unambiguous instruction from the LL to do so. In Writing. So if they are damaged, you could be liable. Assuming they are on the inventory of course.......

Anything NOT on the inventory/CDROM cannot be claimed against by the LL unless either you admit to its presence and damage in writing, or simply offer to pay.

Fair wear and tear cannot be claimed by the LL. So if the wallpaper is peeling, and the carpet worn, as a result of age/normal lifestyle, then the LL cannot claim. However if damage is caused (iron left on the carpet, paint chipped off etc) by the tenant, then the LL can claim.

Provided of course he can prove via the inventory/CDROM that the iron mark/chip was not their at the start!

The LL also cannot claim 'btterment'. So if the carpet IS burnt by the tenant, but is, say, 4 years old. And the carpet's normal life-expectancy is, say 8 years, then LL can only claim 50% of the cost.

Whilst your intention to clarify everything in writing in advance is admirable, you risk admitting to all sorts of things you do not need to - in writing. And if the LL then becomes picky, you have left yourself wide open.

By all means discuss on the phone in a friendly manner, but be very cautious what you put in writing.

G_M

BrandNewDay wrote: »

I have no idea how they will deal with the chair. It was definitely not new. I think it may have broken (bent underneath) because it was old. But, who is to say? I just know that if they want to put the same sort of chair/bed thing in that room, it's going to cost them £250.

And, the same for the walls. If they were yellowed with time, to the point where I can't touch them up, then do I have to pay for a whole new paint job? Or do I leave that to them and they can claim for PART of it (or not at all, if they choose not to paint.) For that matter, must they prove that the painting took place? This is why, in the future, I will want a clear record of everything.

If my kids take a biro to old, yellowed vinyl wallpaper that is starting to peel away from the wall, I will feel like I owe something, but I need it to be very clear that the wallpaper wasn't new when we moved in.

Why not wait till you see what, if anything, they want you to pay for?

When that happens, you either think "yes, that's reasonable. I'll pay" or you think "Hell no" - and you raise a deposit dispute.

But if you've already admited things in writing, you may have damaged your ability to dispute.....

Fire_Fox

BrandNewDay wrote: »

Just asking: why should I get the thing about the TV in writing, if the existence of the TV is not in writing to begin with?

I have no idea how they will deal with the chair. It was definitely not new. I think it may have broken (bent underneath) because it was old. But, who is to say? I just know that if they want to put the same sort of chair/bed thing in that room, it's going to cost them £250.

And, the same for the walls. If they were yellowed with time, to the point where I can't touch them up, then do I have to pay for a whole new paint job? Or do I leave that to them and they can claim for PART of it (or not at all, if they choose not to paint.) For that matter, must they prove that the painting took place? This is why, in the future, I will want a clear record of everything.

If my kids take a biro to old, yellowed vinyl wallpaper that is starting to peel away from the wall, I will feel like I owe something, but I need it to be very clear that the wallpaper wasn't new when we moved in.

IMO to be reasonable whilst covering your @rse. Everything you report in writing or get them to agree in writing is protecting yourself and (hopefully) saving yourself time, confusion and arguments if the whole thing goes to a deposit dispute or a small claims action.

Whilst it is relatively unlikely the landlords will come up with compelling evidence (photos from an old Rightmove link, messages from you that you forgot sending, detailed receipt from the company who wall mounted the TV the day before you moved in, witness statement from their gas safe engineer, who knows) it is often not worth taking the risk they won't. In general the tenants that have the easiest time with small claims actions or deposit disputes have far better record keeping and organisational skills than their (amateur/ shyster) landlords. Many landlords will just back down when they realise you can back up everything. :cool:

BrandNewDay

I am so glad I did not hit "send" on that email!

Nothing is in writing, really. Unfortunately, that includes the stuff being in the shed. But, I don't think there's much damage, there. There wasn't any when we last checked, anyway.

I am fully expecting to lose the deposit. I really don't want to lose MORE than the deposit. At the same time, I don't want to be one of those trashy people that leaves a place a mess. We're going to spend about £200 cleaning, repairing, and replacing things. I'd like to get about that much back from the deposit.

MummySavingMoney

Dear BrandNewDay, I think your landlords have behaved very badly, rushing to make money out of their their dead parents' home without first emptying it of their parents' personal stuff. They have shown a complete lack of respect to their deceased parents, and to their tenants (prescription medicines left unlocked and without warning in a house being rented out to a family with young children means the house had not been made safe for a start).

I am new to all this, but my son will be leaving home soon, thanks to your post I know a bit more about what problems he may encounter. I am now planning to visit properties with him, and take lots of photos as evidence of the state of the decor, fittings etc before he moves in.

Everyone keeps warning him that landlords find a reason to keep your deposit whatever you do to keep the place responsibly. I hope that isn't true. I wish you well.