Student finace issue.

wannabeIndy

Apologies if this matter has already been covered.

Long story short. I applied for student finance ealier this year for fee support and maintanence grant/loan for a degree at Liverpool Uni. I undertook a 2 year part time course (cert HE) as a route to access, with liverpool confirming they would take the qualification over getting 2 more A-levels and a language GCSE. I moved from Nottingham to Liverpool in September and started the degree.

I received an email from SFE on the 5th October informing me that I would no longer be entitled to fee support or a maintanence grant as the study I did before takes two years off my allotted 3 years +1 for support. Which now leaves me in the situation of finding £9,000 for the fees within the next week, and leaving me in the lurch grant wise.

I appealed their decision on the basis that at no point was this pointed out to me. Only now that they have told me this have they directed me to bits of the website where it says previous study "may" effect your application. It's also taken them the better part of a year, since receiving my application, to inform me of this decision. 3 weeks into the degree and I find this out. If they would have notified me that this would be the case I wouldn't even be in this situation as there is no way I can afford it.

They have recently emailed me to say they have upheld their decision. So I've gone to stage 2 of the appeal process. Their transparency and attitude when dealing with people is non-existent. It's been like dealing with a sentient Excel-spreadsheet. I had no option than to do the certificate course over two years, as I was signed off work after an injury and decided to get back into education. The only way they would let me do the course was if I took 60 credits per year.

I've had absolutely nothing from SFE. Not a letter, a form, anything. The maintenance loan went into my account two weeks ago and i'm wondering why, as i've filled out no declaration form or agreed to anything SFE have given me. If I can't get fee support there is no point me having it, as i'll have to leave the course.

I've informed my local MP of the situation, and emailed David Willetts. The whole story that you hear in the news regarding University is that "it doesn't cost you anything up front, you won't have to pay anything until after your degree", when, in reality, for quite a few people that's not actually the case. I'm a mature student, and I was reserved in the knowledge that it was a huge financial decision to take, what with the fee increases etc. I put that to the back of my mind as i'm chasing what I've alwasy dreamed of doing. And now thanks to this decision i'll more than likely be adding to the woes of the benefits system.

Does anyone know if there is anything I can do to push this through? Is there a way I can actually sit in front of a board of decision makers to put my full case across? The frustrating this about all this was SFE asking if there is any people I could ask to help loan me the money. I replied to them "yes......STUDENT FINANCE ENGLAND!"

I'm really at my wits end. Turned out to be a long post. Apologies.

dizzyrascal

Can't really help you on the SFE front but if you did your Cert HE part time (120 credits) I only see this as one year. However, it is one year at HE level so it would reduce your overall "allowance".
If you are doing a three year degree then I would have thought you would be ok. (I may be wrong on that though, the rules are quite complicated and it is not my area)
I imagine that the problem has arisen as you have already studied at degree level although not up to a degree.
Is it the same subject?
If so are you doing a top up course or a full degree in an unrelated field?
In the meantime, have you got all the help available from your university/students' union? Make sure to see the mature students' officer, they are usually very good and may be able to point you in the direction of help or finance.

Taiko

How long is the new course?

wannabeIndy

The certificate was in Egyptology, which is what i'm doing at degree level. As I said above, I couldn't do it in a year, as I was signed off work. The benefits office told me I had to do it over two years, so not knowing anything would effect me I did.

I've heard people saying a certHE is equivalent to a 1st year degree, but in reality is itsn't. My uni wouldn't take that as a first year and put me straight onto year two. As i'm a mature student they accepted it instead of A-levels.

After finding out all this regarding my fees, I trawled through the direct Gov website to see what it actually says. I found...

"You’ll usually only be able to get student finance if you’re doing a first
higher education qualification. In some cases, you can also get student
finance if you’re ‘topping up’ a lower-level higher education
qualification. For example, if you have a foundation degree, HNC or HND you
may still qualify for student finance to study for an honours degree".

On the Directgov website it also states that a Cert.HE is “broadly
equivalent to an HNC” and according to the same website as already quoted
above: “if you have a foundation degree, HNC or HND you may still qualify
for student finance to study for an honours degree.” If this is the case, I
cannot see why I have been considered ineligible for the student finance
for which I have applied.

The Directgov website states that a Cert.HE “usually take
a year of full-time study to complete” and if I could have done so in that
time I would have. In effect, I am now being penalised due to the amount of
time that it necessarily took for me to gain the Cert.HE.

I just wish there was an actual tribuneral I could sit before and put my case towards them. It really is causing me to lose the will to live.

Taiko

You've still not answered my question which, if you want a proper eligibility response, needs to be answered.

wannabeIndy

Taiko wrote: »

You've still not answered my question which, if you want a proper eligibility response, needs to be answered.

It's a 3yr Hons degree.

Taiko

Paragraph 22 uses the formula (D + X) - PrC where D is the length of the new course, X is 1 if the previous course was less than 3 years, and PrC is the length of time spent on the previous course. Fitting in with yours, and there is no exemption on part time study where a qualification is received, gives the calculation:

(3 + 1) - 2 = 2 years full entitlement.

Full entitlement is allocated from the final year of the new course working backwards until all entitlement is allocated. With this in mind, SFE are completely correct in their assessment. You'll gain full support in the 2nd and 3rd years, but are restricted to a maintenance loan only in the first year, alongside Parents Learning Allowance, Childcare Grant and Adult Dependents Grant if you qualify for them.

There is no entitlement to a fee loan or a maintenance/special support grant.

The regulations are clear on this, and you have no grounds for any appeal.

wannabeIndy

Well the regulations were not made clear to me, and from what I hear i'm not the only one.

I'm appealing on the process. The whole contract law maxim of "offer and acceptance" has no relevance here. They have informed me of nothing. Not until 3 weeks into the degree did they decide to inform me of their decision, a month after I sold up and moved across the country to University. If I would have known this just a month earlier it would have saved me a four-figure sum that it cost me to move, as there is no way I could have afforded to pay for the first year. I've still had no decleration form, no insite as to actually what i'm entitled to and how much i'll be getting.

I just can't see the sense in it. As i've told a few people, the whole line you hear about not paying for your degree up front essentially boils down to anyone apart from people like me who take a different route to get onto a degree. I've worked solidly for the last to years to get the pass score I needed for University to accept the certificate, only for SFE to turn round and tell me that they won't fund the first year. Instead of going to university i'll be heading out next week to sign onto the benefits system again. Who does that help in the long run? Nobody.

Thanks for your reply. I'm still going ahead with contacting the financial ombudsman service tomorrow, and in a stroke of fortune one of my friends that works for the BBC did a report a week or two ago about uni numbers being down, particularly with mature students. He says he will run a follow up piece with me with the emphasis on my situation, highlighting the treatment i've had from SFE. My local MP is also following it up after sending a letter to SFE a couple of weeks ago on my behalf. I just think other people in my situation should be warned about what they won't be getting from Student Finance.

Taiko

The treatment that is perfectly correct? You signed a declaration stating that you read the terms and conditions of applying for support. Didn't you read them?

They actually make reference to The Education (Student Support) Regulations 2011, as well as there being a direct regulation for those that have previous study which is clearly labelled.

Financial Ombudsman does not apply to current student loans, only pre-1998 loans.

BBC aren't exactly doing well with their journalism at the moment either. So many factors about why numbers are down. Did it ocur to them maybe more people applied previously to get in before the fee increase? Can't really be judged in the first year of the new rules.

Dunroamin

wannabeIndy wrote: »

The Directgov website states that a Cert.HE “usually take
a year of full-time study to complete” and if I could have done so in that
time I would have. In effect, I am now being penalised due to the amount of
time that it necessarily took for me to gain the Cert.HE.
.

You're being penalised because you took two years to do a one year course and then chose to study at a university that doesn't allow you to transfer your credits on to the second year of a degree course, thus taking 5 years to achieve a degree rather than the maximum allowed 3 + 1.

Students (particularly mature ones) are expected to find out things for themselves and to ensure that they understand everything that they sign.

You're flogging the proverbial dead horse, I'm afraid.

wannabeIndy

Taiko wrote: »

The treatment that is perfectly correct? You signed a declaration stating that you read the terms and conditions of applying for support. Didn't you read them?

They actually make reference to The Education (Student Support) Regulations 2011, as well as there being a direct regulation for those that have previous study which is clearly labelled.

Financial Ombudsman does not apply to current student loans, only pre-1998 loans.

BBC aren't exactly doing well with their journalism at the moment either. So many factors about why numbers are down. Did it ocur to them maybe more people applied previously to get in before the fee increase? Can't really be judged in the first year of the new rules.

I sent off the PTG1 form applying for finance, that's the only thing i've had. And I did read it. It doesn't really mean a thing, because they had not offered me anything by then. Contract law states that I would have to accept the deal that they are offering me. I have NO IDEA what they are offering me, as i've had nothing. How can it be a legally binding contract when I haven't accepted the offer they have given me? I sent off the PTG1 form applying for fee payment and grants and loans for my degree. I've only just had an email from SFE, weeks after the degree had started, informing me of their "offer". I don't agree to their terms. They have paid money into my account with no signature from me telling them that I actually agree to the offer. Even the finance people at university who have been supporting me through this process said that I should "be able to get them on that". Do you really think this is fair behaviour?

I'll still call the Financial ombudsman service as they may advise me on another way to go with the complaint about the actual contract. I bent the ear of one of the law students here and he says contractually SFE have essentially just given me money.

As for the BBC report the finance advisors at Uni seem to agree with it. As I said, I feel like i've been treated in the most appauling manner by SFE, and I think other people who are taking a certificate course or some other similar route as I did need warning that they won't get the full finance.