crack seems to be right through??

snowmaid

An update. The LL came around last night with a builder to look at the crack. The builder says that it isn't subsidence, but rather that the arch is weak on one side and is easy enough to fix? He is going to open up the crack, take steel rods, prop between the cracks, fill with resin and then plaster or somethingy like that.

What is worrying me is that he says because its an arch, there is no lintel there?? Which means that the original cause of the crack is still there and likely to cause problems down the line again? Any experts on here understand what I am trying to say??

Looking at the pics, do you think it would be possible to reinforce the arch with a lintel above it?

Perhaps I should give this property a miss and move on before going through costs of structual engineer!!

Oh, I mentioned his insurance company sending someone and he avoided the subject.....should I be worried??

marybishop

Snowmaid - you don't need to spend £1000 on a survey, you could ask a Chartered Building Surveyor to do what's called a 'defects analysis' i.e. look at the crack and give you an idea of what is causing it. However, if you are looking to buy the property then it would be in your interest to have a survey done because there could be other problems that you are not aware of yet!

It seems highly suspicious that your LL cannot find the report that was done before and is very reluctant to notify his insurers. Also, who is the builder he brought round - a friend? You're not going to get impartial advice unless an independent expert looks at the problem.

I think if he's not willing to pay out for an expert to have a look at the problem then don't contemplate buying the place however much you love it unless you're prepared for the fact that whatever repairs he has done by his builder friend may not solve the problem and you could end up paying out big time once the property is yours. Also not sure how your insurance company would view the issue, presumably you'd have to notify them that there's a problem if you were to buy it?

lush_walrus

Hhhm it is most certainly not a plaster crack! It is spanning in a diagonal, which would indicate that the corner where the crack ends above the patio door is dropping. As said above, this could either be that the lintel is not adequate, or that there is movement on this rear facade.

The questions I have are:

Have new is the construction? It could be initial movement, although to be honest that crack doesnt really look like it.

Is it cavity construction? You may have already said but I missed it! Basically, if it is cavity and going the whole way through the cavtiy, personally I wouldn't rely on it being the lintel and would air towards subsidence.

The problem is if it is subsidence, then it is slightly more difficult for an untrained eye to spot. But, are there any reasons for it subside may be a place to start. Any large trees? Any digging up of drains etc? Subsidence is caused by the foundations being undermined, so you need to look for things that may be undermining it. If it is a modern property, then it may be that the foundations are sat on something that is moving and changing, which you will not be able to see.

If I were you, I would forget trusting builders who are looking by eye, and instruct a structual engineer to provide a report. The structural eng will be obliged to investigate properly (or will be struck off the register) where as a builder 'having a look' you will have no come back at all in later times. If you are buying the property, it is more than accepted to split the cost with the owner, as this will not go away if you do not buy it, so they will have to do something either way.

It might not be very costly to fix, but if you are to buy it, you need peace of mind and to know that the job has been correctly diagnosed and correctly fixed. A structual eng will be able to specify exactly what needs to be carried out, and will probably ask for trial holes to be dug around the rear facade.

A £1000 might sound a lot, but you are potentially investing in something far far greater than that, so it is surely worth making sure that whatever is causing it is dealt with correctly now. I certainly would not trust a builder brought around by the owner for this job, it's in both of their interests to stick together and to find a cheap 'solution' to the problem, which may well not be correct.

snowmaid

lush_walrus wrote: »

Hhhm it is most certainly not a plaster crack! It is spanning in a diagonal, which would indicate that the corner where the crack ends above the patio door is dropping. As said above, this could either be that the lintel is not adequate, or that there is movement on this rear facade.

The questions I have are:

Have new is the construction? It could be initial movement, although to be honest that crack doesnt really look like it.

Is it cavity construction? You may have already said but I missed it! Basically, if it is cavity and going the whole way through the cavtiy, personally I wouldn't rely on it being the lintel and would air towards subsidence.

The problem is if it is subsidence, then it is slightly more difficult for an untrained eye to spot. But, are there any reasons for it subside may be a place to start. Any large trees? Any digging up of drains etc? Subsidence is caused by the foundations being undermined, so you need to look for things that may be undermining it. If it is a modern property, then it may be that the foundations are sat on something that is moving and changing, which you will not be able to see.

If I were you, I would forget trusting builders who are looking by eye, and instruct a structual engineer to provide a report. The structural eng will be obliged to investigate properly (or will be struck off the register) where as a builder 'having a look' you will have no come back at all in later times. If you are buying the property, it is more than accepted to split the cost with the owner, as this will not go away if you do not buy it, so they will have to do something either way.

It might not be very costly to fix, but if you are to buy it, you need peace of mind and to know that the job has been correctly diagnosed and correctly fixed. A structual eng will be able to specify exactly what needs to be carried out, and will probably ask for trial holes to be dug around the rear facade.

A £1000 might sound a lot, but you are potentially investing in something far far greater than that, so it is surely worth making sure that whatever is causing it is dealt with correctly now. I certainly would not trust a builder brought around by the owner for this job, it's in both of their interests to stick together and to find a cheap 'solution' to the problem, which may well not be correct.

It's a 1930's mid terrace. The houses next to it seem fine. Apparently it isn't a cavity wall. Wouldn't this be worse? There are no trees close by at all. I just wonder if this lot isn't due to the patio door being installed without a lintel. This crack has been there since we moved in, which will be 3 years in August. It seems to have opened a bit more than when we first moved in.

marybishop

And that's the worrying bit - it's obviously getting worse so whatever the 'builder' did before hasn't worked. Like the previous OP said you need expert advice from someone who is covered by PI insurance so that you've got some comeback, not some dodgy builder who you may never see again!

o_t_e

Hi Snowbird - the description you give of the builders proposed work sounds like something that is done to make good historic movement; it seems pretty clear that the original wooden window frames provided a structural support that the upvc frames lack. My first thought was to get a lintel in there - something like this:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz/wickes/invt/243789/243789-ab0-00_full.jpg

But then you mention that there is no cavity which seems strange for a 1930s property and makes me wonder if the property is 'of standard construction' as the insurers put it, which raises a new set of questions.

Have you had back any kind of survey from the mortgage provider and if so did it raise any concerns about the materials/type of construction?

snowmaid

o_t_e wrote: »

Hi Snowbird - the description you give of the builders proposed work sounds like something that is done to make good historic movement; it seems pretty clear that the original wooden window frames provided a structural support that the upvc frames lack. My first thought was to get a lintel in there - something like this:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz/wickes/invt/243789/243789-ab0-00_full.jpg

But then you mention that there is no cavity which seems strange for a 1930s property and makes me wonder if the property is 'of standard construction' as the insurers put it, which raises a new set of questions.

Have you had back any kind of survey from the mortgage provider and if so did it raise any concerns about the materials/type of construction?

Thanks for this. We haven't had a structual survey done as yet, because I just don't want to waste money if its going to cost thousands to repair. Please don't quote me on the cavity business, I just heard the builder saying to the owner that it is a 9 inch wall??

What is worrying me is that if the builder does this work as said, what happens further down the years if problems arise? Would insurance cover those problems?? :eek: How do I find these things out BEFORE having a structual survey conducted.

o_t_e

Ok that may well be a solid brick wall, which goes some way to explain why the house is rendered. Basically the builder wants to tie in the area underneath the arch thats dropping with the brickwork around it - it might work but you would need to declare this work when you applied for insurance and I'm not sure where that would leave you if the problem continued.

I think it would be worthwhile independently contacting another builder and seeing if he concurs with the proposed work, or if not, how much they would charge to install a reinforced concrete lintel - to address your concern it shouldn't be thousands but then calling in a structural surveyer for this one particular issue (and otherwise just getting a valuation survey) shouldn't be that expensive either.

mustrum_ridcully

snowmaid wrote: »

Oh !!!!!!.....:eek:

As far as I am aware this patio door was installed by the Landlord himself and he said that there is a lintel in place?? Now, would this still be covered by his insurance even though it was a DIY jobby?

I am now extremely hesitant to buy this property....but I am soooo happy there!!! :mad:

OMG that reminds of the Fawlty Towers episode where the dodgy Irish builder mate of Basil's fits a new door and decent one comes in and asks concrete lintel or RSJ and Basil replies wooden.

Joking aside, I have seen very similar damage to this myself (though far less serious) and an RSJ (steel equivalent to a lintel) ended up having to be fitted. This was on a 50's house and instead of using a lintel they used someform of rebar (steel reinforcement rods used in concrete) to hold-up the outside brickwork.

I'd put money on having to have the door taken out and a concrete lintel or RSJ fitted.

From reading your newer posts it really does sound like your landlord has done a Basil Fawlty and got the job done on the cheap, hence why he doesn't want to contact his insurers.

weeg

bones61 wrote: »

that is very serious and needs a qualified buider to deal with it ASAP

I don't agree. You need a structural engineer to deal with it!

You don’t need a lintel if there is an arch, the problem appears to be where the arch meets the rest of the brickwork. I would have the brickwork cut out locally (with supports to the arch and the bricks above) and replaced with a concrete padstone. Or put a lintel in with a long enough bearing to avoid further problems. Either way it’s worth getting an SE to look at it – this is a fixable problem, but definitely a problem that needs fixed.

What the builder proposed could well work, but I wouldn't go taking his word for it. It also doesn't sound the cheapest!

The present owner should pay for this.