Dog fight

merlin68

Was out for a walk with my dog yesterday and my 14 year old was holding her and she pulled to go and play with another dog and dd slipped and fell over and let go.
Next thing theres all this snapping and snarling and the womans screaming abuse at me saying get this fxxx thing of so i calmly went over and picked her lead up and walked of. then she goes that fxx thing needs a muzzle dd is crying by this time.
I dont know what to do as shes never shown dog agression before its normally other dogs that go for her.

merlin68

I did apoligize by the way.

NoAngel

Oh dear, I can sympathise as my dog isn't too friendly with other dogs. It's not unusual for some dogs to snap at each other, as long as your dog didn't actually hurt the other dog then no real harm done, but I can imagine the other lady was feeling shaken up.

When another dog came over to my dog and mine snapped at it I started putting a muzzle on him to walk him as I couldn't allow him to snap at a dog again. Perhaps you could do this to prevent anything happening again?

krlyr

Hard to say without seeing what happened, and even then it may not be crystal clear.
It could be that this woman's dog took exception to being approached and snapped at your dog first, triggering a reaction.
Your dog may have just taken exception to this one dog - one of my dogs, for example, is superbly friendly but has a fear of one particular friend of mine for absolutely no logical reason.
Your dog could be feeling a bit under the weather or in pain.
If your dog is frequently 'had a go at' by other dogs, she may have developed a bit of a fear of them. It can be hard to spot this in some dogs as they compensate by being overly-friendly as such - they'll run up to a dog to smother it with appeasement behaviours to try to prevent being attacked.

All kinds of potential causes. If your dog has a history of being friendly 99.9% of the time I'm not sure a muzzle would be necessary just yet but I would ensure that she is always under control. If your daughter cannot keep hold of her then I would consider either not allowing her to walk the dog, or to invest in a headcollar or control harness that will ensure your daughter can't be pulled over. Remember to introduce them gradually, especially a headcollar, because it's a bit of an alien sensation for many dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMR2My1beiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3ovsOvTss

I would perhaps get some friends with dogs to meet up for some controlled interaction with other dogs to make sure your dog remains on good terms with other after this negative experience. If you don't have any friends with dogs I'd maybe try a local trainer or behaviourist who may help out - http://www.apdt.co.uk for trainers, http://www.apbc.org.uk for behaviourists.

If you do decide to introduce a muzzle, whether it's as a genuine need or even just a temporary precaution to bolster your confidence, this video is fab for introducing it (similar to the headcollar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FABgZTFvHo

merlin68

Well i did get a muzzle but she wasn't keen on trying it on, it's shaken my confidence at walking her incase i see this women again and she has a go. She wears a harness anyway. I also contacted one of my friends whos a dog trainer.
Is there anything the women can do. There was no blood or anything just a lot of noise.

krlyr

It will take time to adjust to the muzzle and should be done in babysteps, the video I linked is very comprehensive and done by a prety good behaviourist so well worth watching.

Dog fights are civil offenses, not criminal ones. She could possibly take you to court for damages if her dog was injured but generally there's not much that can be done.
Is your dog insured? If not, take it as a lucky escape if she does nothing and get 3rd party liability insurance at the very least. Most dog insurance policies come with this as standard but an alternative option is to join the Dogs Trust for £25 a year as they will cover any dog in your household.
http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/giving/membership/default.aspx

pawsies

Or it could be that your DD tripping spooked either dog resulting in redirection towards the other dog

minimad1970

Hi krlyr, I'm going to get a muzzle for my dog today. He loves certain dogs and plays really nicely with them others he just hates on sight. Yesterday we met a year old staffy who's really friendly and non-reactive, my dog was on the lead and I explained to the lady that he suffers with fear aggression from being attatcked 3 times. He always seems to have a problem with male staffies. She said to let my dog of the lead and see how they got on. It didn't go well as my dog tried to chase him away whilst snarling and snapping, but no physical damage was done thank goodness. If we meet up again a few more times with my dog wearing a muzzle would my dog eventually realise that this dog was ok or don't dog's minds work like that? Sorry to hijack your thread merlin. I hope you don't have to experience this again with your dog, it's really upsetting for both of the owners and their dogs I'm sure. Good luck.

krlyr

Hi minimad. If your dog is fear reactive then I personally would take things a lot slower. Some trainers do appear to have success with "flooding" a dog - this is the concept of repeatedly exposing your dog to the trigger of its fear to get it over that fear - the method itself is a bit controversial as sometimes it can just mask the problem. Think of it like a phobia, if you've ever suffered one yourself you can understand how extreme it can be. If you were scared of spiders, would you get over that fear if you were forced to be in close contact with one on a regular basis?
I personally am a fan of slightly different methods. I think the BAT technique could be good for your dog. BAT stands for behaviour adjustment therapy. It's a bit like CBT for dogs - you strive to change the dog's emotional response to its fear trigger, a bit like how CBT changes people's thought process in regards to, say, their job or a relationship.

Basically you would try to set up some situations - we call these stooge situations because the person/dog involved are used just for this purpose, this helps keep you more in control of what and how your dog is exposed to its fears.
You'd have, ideally, a nice empty field or park and you'd have your stooge dog far away. You'd approach, and watching your dog very carefully, you would get to the point where he was aware of the other dog, but not reacting to it. You would then stop at this line (never go over the line/theshold, always just before it) and wait for your dog to perform a certain behaviour. You're looking for a positive behaviour - an appeasement signal, or a signal that he is relaxing rather than reacting. This could be turning his head ever so slightly away from the dog rather than staring at it, it could be sniffing the ground (dogs do it to calm themselves down or show other dogs they're not a threat), when you spot a signal you reward the dog with a functional reward. A functional reward is something the dog really wants, tailored to the situation, so with a fear reactive dog it's likely that they want to get away from the scary thing. So you'd mark the calming signal/appeasement signal with a click (or a word) and then immediately reward the dog by jogging backwards away from the scary doggy. As an example, if you were using a similar method for an overly friendly dog, the reward would be different - if your dog barked and lunged at other dogs because it wanted to go and play with them but was frustrated about being on-lead, your reward for a calmer reaction (such as sitting and waiting) could be to let your dog off-lead to play. Obviously this is why a stooge dog can be much more beneficial than a random dog in the park. However, you can utilise dogs in the park if you don't have regular access to stooge people/dogs, one method with a fear reactive dog that can work is to find a dog that's on-lead and 'stalk' it (as you can guage the speed its being walked at and keep behind that threshold) or use dogs that are playing (as long as you're confident they won't run over and throw your dog way over threshold) or even try to find dogs behind a fence (so if your park backed onto some houses and there was a dog loose in oen of the gardens, you could utilise that - do, however, be concious of the dog you're taking advantage of, I wouldn't use a dog as a stooge in that kind of situation if it was going to upset it)
The idea behind it is that you're teaching the dog a more appropriate reaction to a dog by rewarding the reaction you want. The dog learns that looking away from a dog gets it away from the scary dog, rather than barking and lunging towards it. As the dog learns to use these different behaviours, its emotional response to other dogs will also begin to shift.

Lily Chin does some fab cartoon drawings of dog body language that will help you know what to look for, she actually illustrated Grisha Stewarts book on BAT, it's a good read, I'd definately recommend it
http://doggiedrawings.net/post/842176625
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilita/3623518112/

http://functionalrewards.com/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Adjustment-Training-Frustration-Aggression/dp/1617810509


However, all that aside, it may just be worth bearing in mind that not all dogs will like all other dogs! Do you like every person you meet? Even in social animal species, you would generally find that most are sociable within their own pack/group/herd but not necessarily so welcoming to strangers from outside their group. It is our society that has deemed it necessary for every dog to get along, but I think it is a fairly high expectation of them. If you're able to control your dog and you're happy with his doggy social circle, I personally wouldn't feel like he has to interact with every dog you meet.

Sally_A

If my dogs ever had a bit of argy bargy with another, I'd run away calling them away, after all if you are the No 1 in their life they will follow.

By you getting into the mix (albeit to sort it out) they see it as more pack back up for the scuffle.

I've luckily always known the dog walkers near me, if a new pooch was obtained, all the dogs were left off the lead, and the owners chatted merrily, a bit of pecking order "play" was ignored. Soon al dogs would run to greet each other, to the extent that I had a dog (wasn't particularly friendly with the owner, but we chatted and got on) that came knocking on the door asking for my two to come out to play in the field.

Ironically, the only dogs we ever had problems with were the show dogs that were marched around the field on a lead, rather than exercised. They were snappy, as being on a lead heightens the defence attitude of a pooch.

Granted, maybe mine should not have approached, but they loved getting involved with, and welcoming all the new dogs on the block.

tiggerbodhi

Hi,
Are you sure it was a "fight"? I have a pack of 8 dogs and some when off lead will rough and tumble with each other and "friends" especially the long dogs as they love to run each other down and play "bitey face" often if one runs to greet a new comer (both off lead) there is a run around woofing and play bowing, the worst that happens is the other owner picks up the other dog, this now is ten times more interesting to mine and jumping up now insues.

Some if mine are muzzled NOT because they are vicious or aggresive but because they are rescued hunting dogs and it is to protect small "furries" they may see (Cats are seen as fair game by them) but the reaction of some is "that dog is dangerous because it is muzzled" which is far from the truth for some, if you do muzzle make sure you get an open one, (the plastic style used for Greyhounds etc) so the dog can still pant and drink, but be prepared for cleaning lots of dog slobber!:)