Got caught doing the old sitting in FC on overcrowded train trick

WickedWolfie

arcon5 wrote: »

Wouldn't that therefore make the ticket not fit for purpose? After all the purpose of the ticket is to transport op from A to B in std class, but due to over-selling they are unable to fulfil this contractual obligation

You buy a ticket from A to B. Unless it is an advanced ticket for a specific train, which normally comes with a seat reservation, you are not compelled to board any particular train. The ticket does NOT guarantee a seat. The OP does not say that he couldn't have stood, even if less than comfortably, in Standard. If he wanted a seat wait for the next train....

Oh, and your consumer law arguements are bull - try looking at the National Conditions of Carriage which underlie all tickets and the legislation behind that, much of which dates back to the late 1800s!

rdwarr

The train is "rammed" at St. Pancras. It empties out a lot at Farringdon (where the OP boarded) and, by City Thameslink (2 minutes away) there are numerous seats available in Standard.
The OP was unlucky to get caught (it's possible the RPI was there waiting for people to try it on) but seems to have the opportunity to escape without a court appearance and criminal record (which FCC often go for).
Appealing will make things worse - especially when saying things like "First Class looks the same as Standard".

tomwakefield

Be grateful you aren't in Japan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0A9-oUoMug

mttylad

This is why I am glad I do not take a train to work.

yorkie2

I suspect a Penalty Fare has been charged, not a fine. A fine could be imposed but only if the matter went to Court. FCC do sometimes prosecute people for this, and the fine would be several hundreds of pounds.

I suggest paying the Penalty Fare. It was issued correctly, by the sound of it.

rob4001 wrote: »

Actually you know, i might just start getting the Gatwick Express instead. Vote with your feet and all.

That is the best thing to do in future. The Gatwick Express trains are empty*. They are now (since 2008) operated by Southern, therefore Southern Only tickets are valid on them. These tickets are surprisingly cheap.

(* They are empty in the leading coach heading South, or the rear coach heading North, with the exception of the trains that operate to/from Brighton)

skizz_b

Unfortunately they've got you by the proverbials with this one. Before you go into the first class section it says that the seats are reserved for First Class ticket holders and if you are caught in them with a standard class ticket you are liable for a penalty fare.

Take it on the chin and move on buddy.

mtem74

Is it just me or does the very title of the post suggests that the op was trying it on and got caught?

It also suggests he/she knew what they were doing was wrong and as such should live with the fine/penalty.

Stigy

As has been said, a ticket permits a journey, and not necessarily a seat. Also, worth bearing in mind that all tickets remain the property of the TOC in question and may be withdrawn at any time if staff feel they are being misused.

I suggest taking the PFN on the chin and paying up, as you've been lucky here. You could quite easily have been reported to FCC by the RPI and receive a summons under Byelaw 19. If he questioned you thoroughly enough, he may even have been able to have managed to prove your intent to avoid payment, therefore making the matter even worse in court.

As I said, £20 or so is the far better option, as you'll never win an appeal. Knock yourself out though, you only have the price of a stamp to lose!

timbo58

It's a PF and your appeal will fail almost certainly.

The reason why so many got upset about your comment on Holocaust trains should already be obvious to you, however if it isn't:

Up to 90% of those forced onto those trains died en route, they were neither fed, watered or allowed toilet breaks, when they did arrive even at the 'extermination by forced labour' camps (Auschwitz/Mathausen etc) rather than the 'Death camps' like Treblinka, they had a maximum life expectancy of 3 months if they were fit (hardly likely).

How this even begins to equate in anyones mind with being denied a seat on a journey they choose to take defeats me utterly.
Frankly I advocate a forced visit to Dachau/Auschwitz etc to anyone who even mentions such a thing half heartedly or in jest.

It isn't just bad taste or unfunny, it's beneath contempt.

Rudess

Just been on a train this evening from Cambridge to London with few colleagues from work. A minute after the train started journey 2 ticket officers jumped on us as we were sitting in 'first' class . We had no idea this is first class as doors were open and there was no difference in the seats whatsoever. We tried to explain them that this is a misunderstanding, but they of course didn't want to listen because they make commission out of these, so we basically got each one £70.40 penalty although the return ticket cost us £33, Unbelievable. They gave me a receipt but didn't take any of my details (name,address), just my original ticket.

Honestly, I was thinking to call my bank to make a chargeback, as I couldn't know I'm in first class section, as doors were open and it's really cruel thing to do to us as I honestly wasn't planning to abuse the 'first' class section. I know that appeal wouldn't work because it's not in their interest to cancel penalty fines.

Your advise?