Bad situation... tempted by irresponsibility

Uberwilbur

I've done a fair bit of trawling the internet for information on whether UK credit card debt can follow you abroad, and the general consensus seems to be that if the amount is low enough, it's unlikely that the CC companies will send their collectors on a global hunt to recover the debt. This info is almost always accompanied, however, by a rather moralistic discouragement to leave any debt behind, primarily because it's perceived as 'the wrong thing to do', but also because it'll obviously catch up with you if you return to the UK.

I'm a non-EU citizen, married to a British woman for six years, during which I've lived in the UK the whole time, working and paying taxes for three years and studying for a postgraduate degree for the rest. This last year was by far the most financially difficult for us as my stipend expired before my PhD was finished (a totally normal situation, btw), and both my wife and I had illness in the family which meant we travelled abroad a lot. We brought in a trickle of money through her Jobseeker's Allowance and some freelance work. We simply lived very minimally and sacrificed a lot of little luxuries, but I'm proud of how we coped, particularly as I managed to hold on to about £2000 in savings and make my minimum credit card payments (I only had about £500 in debt).

This was totally insufficient when it came to renewing my marriage visa to remain in the UK, however. As of 30 July, new rules introduced by the coalition set a minimum income threshold for marriage visas of £18,600, which is about £16,600 more than we earned in the last year. I was told by UKBA in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be allowed to remain in the country, and had this verified by my MP, who generously campaigned on my behalf. The rules are the rules, no matter how clumsily applied. I know how crazy all this sounds, but these rules are brand new, which is why they haven't received much media attention yet. There are many people similarly affected, though, and if you don't believe me then a simple Google search will confirm what I say.

I don't want to get into the politics of the immigration reforms here, other than to say my wife and I are now out of the UK, and very bitter about the way we've been treated (being indirectly accused of scrounging off the state or having a sham marriage, essentially). Neither of us has any desire to return in the near future, and I think our opportunities might prove more promising abroad. Another huge source of bitterness is how much this whole relocation has cost us. I was on the verge of getting a job in the UK, but just the cost of leaving (booking tickets out of the country, getting a storage unit for our stuff, etc.), has required me to take out a new credit card which I'm pretty much living off at the moment. I went from potentially earning an above average salary, and was nearly debt-free, to trebling my debt and having to forgo any future income in the UK, all as a result of this idiotic policy, which offers no allowances for individual circumstance.

If I really have no intention of going back to the UK, what's the worst that can happen as regards the outstanding credit card debt? There is no realistic chance of my wife and I getting a mortgage anywhere in the next ten years or so, so that's not even an issue. Furthermore, I'd like to be done with credit cards once and for all as soon as I'm earning again, so I'm not concerned about being able to take out new cards in the future.

I know that I'm letting my bitterness affect my thinking here, and of course I'd feel better about myself if I were able to pay off the debt. However, this whole situation has been a major financial setback for me, and I don't know when - or where - I'll actually get a job. For the time being there's no way I can start paying back the debt. I only have about £4,000 in credit, of which I've used about half. If I were to eventually take a job in the UK, then I'd be earning enough to make repayment pretty feasible. So my question is what if I don't return to the UK for, say, 10 years or more, and never make a payment again?

Thanks

Voyager2002

Uberwilbur, I'm really sorry that your post was given such an unhelpful response. I have reported that response as abuse.

In response to your question: it all depends on what you end up earning in your new home, and of course on the legal system there. Clearly if you continue to earn next to nothing then paying your debt would be impossible. You might choose to make token payments to your card while asking them to freeze interest (that is what a court in England would order if the creditor were to take you to court).

Uberwilbur

Thanks Voyager. I didn't know that freezing interest was a possibility. The thing is, my preference would always be to pay off the debt, but it just feels impossible at the moment. Because leaving the country has provided an escape route of sorts, I've got a devil on one shoulder and I want to get all the info I can before I pay him too much attention.

DevCoder

For some sensible advice.

Most of the major credit card companies have presence or have a third party "substance" in most countries (short of the obvious third world/ war torn countries).

If a person goes "absent" then they can ask their other branches or third parties to monitor for this person coming up on their "radar".

Credit card companies, certainly the major ones, are a lot harder to avoid then loan companies for example which have a limited presence in outher countries.

You would be better to offer a debt repayment plan as Voyager suggests to clear the debt once you have an income. Not only is that "morally" right but you'd also avoid the hounding and black markers if they did locate you.

Also if it is a major credit card then they can retain their own internal records of your default for as long as they wish, so if you came back and popped up on their radar then they could refuse you any of their products (not just credit cards but basic accounts to mortgages to loans etc). Something else to bear in mind is that multiple banks can be part of one umbrella group so the information is shared amongst those banks.

j.e.j.

As far as I know, if a (consumer) debt hasn't been acknowledged and there hasn't been any contact for 6 years you can't legally be chased for it, though they may try!

I am not sure about their abilities to chase you for the debt if you are abroad, but if they were to discover your whereabouts you would be liable for the debt plus interest, plus debt collectors fees, etc, which would be expensive!

GooliesOfFire

As far as I know the new immigration rules apply to new applicants. You've been in the country for many years. But as you lived of other people's taxes then maybe they look at that differently.

jonesMUFCforever

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Uberwilbur, I'm really sorry that your post was given such an unhelpful response. I have reported that response as abuse.

In response to your question: it all depends on what you end up earning in your new home, and of course on the legal system there. Clearly if you continue to earn next to nothing then paying your debt would be impossible. You might choose to make token payments to your card while asking them to freeze interest (that is what a court in England would order if the creditor were to take you to court).

Thank you for that I haven't laughed so much in ages!!!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

SnowTiger

krisdorey wrote: »

For some sensible advice.

Most of the major credit card companies have presence or have a third party "substance" in most countries (short of the obvious third world/ war torn countries).

If a person goes "absent" then they can ask their other branches or third parties to monitor for this person coming up on their "radar".

LOL. Companies may well have a presence in several countries, but the various bits rarely talk to each other.

We're talking about a £2,000 debt here, £4,000 if the OP maxed out their cards.

Even if the OP stayed in the UK the worst that would happen is they'd receive literally thousands of phone calls, a mountain of threatening letters and have difficulties obtaining credit for the next three to six years.

My advice to the OP is move abroad and leave your debts behind. Whether you should pay them is a moral matter not a practical one.

It's a little known fact that if you ignore (unsecured) debt it does eventually go away.

GooliesOfFire

Also you will need to give it at least 6 years before you apply for UK Visa again.. they may do credit checks.

After reading this thread I know why my wife (who's foreigner with permanent residence) has difficulties to get a decent credit card. When you apply as foreigner there will always be risk involved.

And probably it affects me as I am financially associated with her (join mortgage + joint current account).

Uberwilbur

Goolies - they have never done credit checks for visa applications, and it seems very unlikely that they'll start doing so in the future. The new minimum income threshold only came into effect in July and has already been subject to a Motion of Regret in the House of Lords and mounting political opposition. I've never had any trouble getting a credit card as a foreigner as I've always been able to demonstrate proof of address, NI number and income. I don't even think my nationality was asked for.

And for future reference, you might want to proceed a little more cautiously before suggesting that someone whom you don't know has 'lived off other people's taxes'. I should know better than to rise to the bait, but just to be clear, as a non-citizen I've never been entitled to any benefits, despite paying NI taxes all the years I worked. My wife has worked for more than a decade, with only short periods of claiming Jobseeker's between jobs. The fact that she was on Jobseeker's for about six months this year while helping her father recover from major heart surgery hardly justifies the claim that I've been habitually 'living off other people's taxes'.

It's precisely this kind of uninformed assumption which has led to a one-size-fits-all immigration reform designed to punish 'benefit scroungers' but which inadvertently affects people like me.

Uberwilbur

And thanks to everyone else for the input. It more or less confirms what I'd understood already, but I worried that there were little details I'd been overlooking. The simple fact is that I can't pay the debt at the moment, so I'm going to have to wait and see how things pan out before I make any further decisions. I don't like the idea of leaving a black mark against my name in the UK, but if there's no real prospect of settling there in the next six years or so, then I guess the debt's probably small enough to prevent any very serious consequences. I know people who've been in tens of thousands of pounds of debt and have managed to emerge from their situations without having their lives ruined. If they can do it with tons of debt, and while remaining in the UK, my situation seems relatively uncomplicated.