Advice on court appearance please

andygb

brat wrote: »

Which is why it's always useful to know exactly what the evidence is.
On first analysis, pulling out into the path of a person already 'established' on the roundabout would be a 'due care', but if that person wasn't even visible on the roundabout when you started to pull out, it's a different story.

Some mini roundabouts can encourage drivers to cut them when turning right by either going over the central dome or bypassing it altogether. This can often cause conflict with other parties entering the roundabout from the opposite direction because the car comes into their path too quickly, but the fault lies with the driver who has cut the roundabout.

This is not a mini roundabout, but is a bit of an accident black spot, with people being "teeboned" on a regular basis.

Sgt_Pepper_2

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

You say it is her first accident, but does she have any points on her licence for any other offence?

The penalty for driving without due care is 3 - 9 points plus a fine (the magistrates also have the power to make a discretionary disqualification is they feel it appropriate)

If she has a clean record with no points and this was a momentary lapse of concentration, she is probably not going to lose her licence for this offence, however if she instructs a solicitor there is a possibility that they can negotiate with the CPS on her behalf for her to do a driver improvement course instead. Provided she successfully completed the course the charge would be dropped so she would have no conviction for careless driving and no points or fine.

So it might be worth a consultation with a solicitor to see if this is a possibility.

Careless driving has to be more than a momentary lapse in concentration.

It's the police that offer a driver improvement course, as the matter has gone to uif cps the option for a course has gone too.

Sgt_Pepper_2

andygb wrote: »

This is not a mini roundabout, but is a bit of an accident black spot, with people being "teeboned" on a regular basis.

So why do you think it keeps happening there?

You have not really provided much info on this collision and therefore risk going off half cocked.

andygb

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

So why do you think it keeps happening there?

You have not really provided much info on this collision and therefore risk going off half cocked.

The information which I have given is based on fact, and since I was not there, then it is very difficult to give any more information than what I have been told.
If you contrast this situation with one which involved me a few years ago, then you can see why this lady is worried/angry.
About five years ago on a Sunday afternoon, we were stting in our lounge watching the golf on the telly, when there was a loud noise outside. I looked out and saw the neighbour's car driving away, down the road. He then came back, having turned the car around, and when parking, hit my car again from a different angle. We went outside, and he was till trying to park, causing more damage to my car, and ignored myshouts at him to stop, until I kicked the side of his vehicle. He then got outside, and his breath reeked of alcohol, and he threatened to report me for criminal damage:rotfl:. I then said that I was calling the police, and he went and sat in the car again. I went inside, told the police what happened, and they basically dragged their heels, said that they couldn't send out a patrol car, until I threatened to take a sledgehammer to his car. They asked me where he was, and I told them he was still in his car, and as soon as I said that, we could see him driving off!:mad: The police asked me where he was going, which direction:( I replied that I didn't have a clue. The police officer then said that they would send a patrol.
I then went outside and went off in my car to see if I could find him - he was down at the local working men's club. I then went back to the house to tell the police. Whilst I was in the house he arrived back, could not let himself into the house, and went back to sit in his car. The police arrived, and I had to direct them to his car, because they got no answer from his house.
Basically they took him down to the station to charge him. For the next couple of months I could get no information out of the police as to what they were doing with him, until a friend pointed out that they had to tell me under the "Victims and witnesses act". I then found out (after it had gone to court), that he had been charged with "stopped whislt under the influence of alcohol", he had been fined £500, banned for a year, and had been 3.5 times over the legal limit. There was no mention of him hitting another vehicle or the fact that he left the scene of the accident whilst still drunk.
I should add, that it was the third time that he had damaged my vehicle(s) in a period of two years, and that other neighbours had complained about him as well.

Sgt_Pepper_2

andygb wrote: »

The information which I have given is based on fact, and since I was not there, then it is very difficult to give any more information than what I have been told.
If you contrast this situation with one which involved me a few years ago, then you can see why this lady is worried/angry.
About five years ago on a Sunday afternoon, we were stting in our lounge watching the golf on the telly, when there was a loud noise outside. I looked out and saw the neighbour's car driving away, down the road. He then came back, having turned the car around, and when parking, hit my car again from a different angle. We went outside, and he was till trying to park, causing more damage to my car, and ignored myshouts at him to stop, until I kicked the side of his vehicle. He then got outside, and his breath reeked of alcohol, and he threatened to report me for criminal damage:rotfl:. I then said that I was calling the police, and he went and sat in the car again. I went inside, told the police what happened, and they basically dragged their heels, said that they couldn't send out a patrol car, until I threatened to take a sledgehammer to his car. They asked me where he was, and I told them he was still in his car, and as soon as I said that, we could see him driving off!:mad: The police asked me where he was going, which direction:( I replied that I didn't have a clue. The police officer then said that they would send a patrol.
I then went outside and went off in my car to see if I could find him - he was down at the local working men's club. I then went back to the house to tell the police. Whilst I was in the house he arrived back, could not let himself into the house, and went back to sit in his car. The police arrived, and I had to direct them to his car, because they got no answer from his house.
Basically they took him down to the station to charge him. For the next couple of months I could get no information out of the police as to what they were doing with him, until a friend pointed out that they had to tell me under the "Victims and witnesses act". I then found out (after it had gone to court), that he had been charged with "stopped whislt under the influence of alcohol", he had been fined £500, banned for a year, and had been 3.5 times over the legal limit. There was no mention of him hitting another vehicle or the fact that he left the scene of the accident whilst still drunk.
I should add, that it was the third time that he had damaged my vehicle(s) in a period of two years, and that other neighbours had complained about him as well.

None of this has anything to do with the matter you are asking advice on.

zzzLazyDaisy

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

Careless driving has to be more than a momentary lapse in concentration.

It's the police that offer a driver improvement course, as the matter has gone to uif cps the option for a course has gone too.

I am sorry, but that simply is not true.

1 If a driver pulls out onto a roundabout (or from a side road into a main road) and is hit by an oncoming car, the driver pulling out is normally at fault, and this is a common reason for a Due Care (careless driving) charge. This is often due to a momentary lapse in concentration where the driver failed to look properly. The reason for the driver pulling out does not have to be reckless, culpable or deliberate.

2 Cases are often remitted for a driver improvement course following discussions between solicitor and CPS, particularly when the person has an unblemished record. Just because you don't hear of this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

EDIT - @OP there are solicitors who specialise in driving offences, if you google you will find names of the larger more well known ones, they may be expensive, but you may find some useful info on their websites and it may be possible to arrange a short preliminary telephone consultation. Otherwise phone/ask around to see if any solicitors in your area specialise in driving offences (no disrespect to general solicitors, but the specialists are the ones who appear regularly in the local magistrates court and are known to the CPS).

Sgt_Pepper_2

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I am sorry, but that simply is not true.

1 If a driver pulls out onto a roundabout (or from a side road into a main road) and is hit by an oncoming car, the driver pulling out is normally at fault, and this is a common reason for a Due Care (careless driving) charge. This is often due to a momentary lapse in concentration where the driver failed to look properly. The reason for the driver pulling out does not have to be reckless, culpable or deliberate.

2 Cases are often remitted for a driver improvement course following discussions between solicitor and CPS, particularly when the person has an unblemished record. Just because you don't hear of this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It is true.

Look at the charging standards. It must be more than a momentary lapse. As summons have been issued the option of a course is gone. The CPS feel they have a realistic chance of a prosecution.