Rent Arrears

MagicQ

Hi,

I would like to know if anyone can help me please with the following:

My partner and I moved out of a property nearly two years ago with substantial rent arrears on the propety. The arrears came about due to change in circumstances rather than our direct doing. We did not part company with the landlord on good terms at all. Basically what has now happened is that the landlord has finally caught up with us. It would appear that she has instructed a company by the name of First Legal Debt Recovery who don't appear to be regulated by the FSA, etc. to collect the debt.

They have sent individual letters to my partner and myself both of which are demanding the full arrears amount when it was a joint tenancy. It would seem to me that they are chancing their arm in claiming that we each owe the full amount. We suspect that perhaps they are not 100% sure that we both live at this address and are 'fishing' for a reponse.

The company has not offered any option to come to any sort of payment arrangement and is demanding that the full amount is paid into their bank account. Their first letter received last Monday expected the payment within 7 days and threatening court action if payment is not received. We returned those letters to the sender although I am not sure that they would receive them back as there was no return address.

We have since received a second letter each still demanding the full amount from each of us. This letter has been titled 'Notice of Intent to Issue Court Proceedings' and it only gives us 5 days from the date of the letter to pay the full amount into their account or they will commence with legal action.

What I would like to know is the following:

Has anyone heard of this company and do you know if they are legit or just some scam outfit.

Do they have to prove that they have found the correct people in order to make the debt stick or can they just take court action without proving that they have the correct people. If they have to prove that we are the correct people how would they do that?

Have they followed the correct procedure in regards to the timetable and letters they have sent for chasing a debt?

Any advice on this would be most appreciated, thanks.

tbs624

MagicQ wrote: »

My partner and I moved out of a property nearly two years ago with substantial rent arrears on the propety. The arrears came about due to change in circumstances rather than our direct doing. We did not part company with the landlord on good terms at all. Basically what has now happened is that the landlord has finally caught up with us. It would appear that she has instructed a company by the name of First Legal Debt Recovery who don't appear to be regulated by the FSA, etc. to collect the debt.

So, rather than voluntarily making an offer to the LL to start clearing the debt you left him/her to seek you out?

They have sent individual letters to my partner and myself both of which are demanding the full arrears amount when it was a joint tenancy. It would seem to me that they are chancing their arm in claiming that we each owe the full amount. We suspect that perhaps they are not 100% sure that we both live at this address and are 'fishing' for a reponse.

You don't seem to understand that having a tenancy with "joint and several liability" means that the LL *can* chase either of you/both of for the full amount due under the tenancy. Joint tenancy does not mean that you each only owe half of the money - that bit is for you to agree with your partner.

The company has not offered any option to come to any sort of payment arrangement and is demanding that the full amount is paid into their bank account. Their first letter received last Monday expected the payment within 7 days and threatening court action if payment is not received. We returned those letters to the sender although I am not sure that they would receive them back as there was no return address.

Why did you return the letters to sender? Did you not think about contacting them and trying to come up with a payment option?

We have since received a second letter each still demanding the full amount from each of us. This letter has been titled 'Notice of Intent to Issue Court Proceedings' and it only gives us 5 days from the date of the letter to pay the full amount into their account or they will commence with legal action.

By not acting you are heading for a CCJ which will harm your credit records fo rthe next 6 years

You may find this link helpful http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer_leaflets/credit/oft1299.pdf

Fire_Fox

Welcome! If it was a joint tenancy you are jointly and severally liable for the full debt - that means they can chase either one of you for all of it, whoever can afford to pay probably.

Sorry but please don't feed us rubbish about change of circumstances, you could have claimed housing benefit, you could have prioritised your rent over other outgoings as recommended by the debt charities, you could have made an effort to pay your landlord back something in the last couple of years, you would not be trying to wriggle out of it now if that were true.

If you don't deal with this debt there is every chance you will end up with a County Court Judgement which will affect your credit worthiness for six years. You may end up with bailiffs or an attachment of earnings (money coming off your wages or benefits). If you have other debts consider a Debt Management Plan with CCCS or Payplan so that you can afford to live as well as pay a fair sum off your debts each month.

Annisele

For all your ex landlord knows, you've won the lottery and you can easily afford the full arrears. So why would they offer you a payment plan?

You're the one who knows your current financial circumstances, so if you want a payment plan you're the one who should ask for it.

I think that there are only five legitimate responses to a (first) letter from a debt collection company:

• How do I know you're acting on behalf of the creditor?
• This debt has nothing to do with me / I'm not the debtor/ I don't think it's me; prove it was. (If you really don't think they're after you).
• I am the person you're looking for, but I don't owe the money because...[I already paid the debt / I didn't receive the services / whatever is true]
• I am the person you're looking for, I do owe the money, but I can't afford it. I enclose £x and my proposals for paying the rest of the debt.
• Here's your money.

Sticking your head in the sand is not going to work. There's another four years before the debt becomes statute barred (I think three years in Scotland), and I doubt your landlord will wait that long.

Since you really are the correct people, your landlord should have too much trouble proving that you are.

chucknorris

A few years ago I bent over backwards trying to get my tenant to pay her arrears, I even offered her a two year interest free payment plan with 10% off! In the end I had to take her to court and I got everything owed plus 8% PA interest within a month of the court hearing. If I ever find myself in that position again I will not delay in going striaght to the small claims court to claim all that I can, it was so easy and straight forward. I could have avoided all that stressful time and the arguements with my wife over me being 'too soft' with my tenant.

rpc

Why do you think they would give you any leeway when you decided not to pay the rent and then did a runner?

If you wish to avoid a CCJ and various nasty consquences then you either need to pay up or stop ignoring the letters and offer a payment plan. Given your history, I would not be surprised if a payment plan is rejected.

The LL is entirely correct to chase you both for the full amount. That is the agreement that you signed with him and with each other.

thegirlintheattic

You did a runner leaving the rent unpaid and now you want favors?! A payment plan is likely to be rejected as you've done a runner in the past.

The LL can chase both of you for the full amount.

Werdnal

You freely admit you owe money, yet are now trying to find loopholes in the route the LL is trying to use to reclaim that money.

Don't expect any sympathy or constructive advice from many members here. TBH I am very surprised at how polite the responses to date have been ... had you not been a newbie, you would have been given pretty short shrift by now!

You seem to have been lucky to evade the LL's debt collectors for a while, but beware your sins will find you out. If LL gets a CCJ it will effect your ability to rent, get credit, mortgage etc for the foreseeable future. The time to discuss payment plans was when you were still at the property and struggling to pay - not now you have done the moolight flit, tried to get away with it and been caught!

MagicQ

Thank you all for your various replies.

In response to those of you who suggest that we could have claimed housing benefit, etc., we were on benefit but there was a large shortfall between the housing benefit we were receiving and the rent due to the LHA. We were on various benefits due to ill health which I will not go into here.

Perhaps I should have mentioned in the first post that we had tried to set up a payment arrangment wth the LL and did not do a moonlight flit/runner as a number of you suggest and did try to do things properly but it was all thrown back at us. The LL was extremely rude and obnoxious. The payment plan that we offered was completely dismissed out of hand and her parting words to us were 'See you in court.'

I'm sorry but I think that if most people were in the same situation dealing with the type of person we had to deal with then perhaps they might have done the same.

I came to this forum for some constuctive advice not to be judged and berated by people who don't know me from Adam! You should try walking a day in my shoes before you pass judgement!!

rpc

You could have included relevant information in your first post, such as the fact that a payment plan was suggested and rejected. Your post does make it sound as if you just upped and left with substantial arrears.

You then go on to ignore demands for payment and look for loopholes. Not the actions of someone who genuinely wants to pay their debts.

Trying to negociate a payment plan will look good in court and presumably you still have the money you proposed to pay the LL saved up (you wouldn't have spent it when you want to pay the LL with it, would you?). Write back offering the lump sum and a payment plan. State you cannot afford the whole amount. If you do not agree a settlement, the risk is that a court will reject your proposal and you will be forced to pay what the court thinks you can.

Fire_Fox

This forum is here to help people exercise their legal rights, not help people get away with not paying money they rightfully owe. You put people's backs up by indicating that you are trying to evade payment by returning letter to sender and using phrases like 'chancing their arm'. Despite that you have still had the correct legal advice that you would be best paying to avoid a CCJ and costs of recovery.

You should have made payments to the landlord regardless of whether he accepted your offer, this is as recommended by the debt charities CCCS and Payplan. If you have written evidence of repeat attempts to set up a payment plan and attempts to make payments on account this may help your case in court. You would be wise to start collating all the evidence you have - letters, e-mails, recorded delivery slips, bank statements etc.

Rude and obnoxious is irrelevant to the legal position, this is about you receiving a service and not paying for it according to the contract you signed. Rent is classed as a priority debt (CCCS and Payplan) and should be paid before most other outgoings, save food and council tax. If you are living in a property that is too large/ you cannot afford you seek the support of the housing officer, your doctor, ward councilllors, MP and disability charities and downsize or take in a paying lodger.

Maybe you should walk a day in the shoes of a landlord before you are so quick to excuse non payment and doing a flit, landlords can get repossessed when they have tenants who do not pay. They can end up with a couple of thousand pound debt converted to one of tens of thousands of pounds once the lender sells. :eek: