UK EU Budget

John_Pierpoint

Lots of lovely NZ organic venison now from the herds of deer on abandoned hill top land.
They can harvest/cull them by shooting them from helicopters:
http://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/food-wine/recipes/223617/student-food-blog-venison-burgers
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/deer-and-deer-farming/11/1
http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/the-dubious-calling-card-of-the-wild/

John_Pierpoint

Wookster wrote: »

What the UK needs is pragmatic government not ideologically minded zealots.

A pragmatic government would have a referendum and then get out of this federal unaccountable nonsense.

Sapphire

Wookster wrote: »

They are getting the coverage they deserve. Margaret Hodges comments were particularly telling: "I hate this vote. I do not want to do it. It's hateful. I just think it's outrageous. I'm almost wanting to abstain."

More so because she is a well respected MP on all sides of the house.

But this vote is also a damning verdict on the lunatic side of the tory party, the fact that some are willing to side with Labour to undermine their own leader beggars belief.

What the UK needs is pragmatic government not ideologically minded zealots.

Despite what the UK gutter press are carolling about – i.e. that this vote showed the PM to be weak, etc, etc – I don't in fact think this is the case. If anything it will strengthen his position when he goes to the negotiations in continental Europe.

grizzly1911

Sapphire wrote: »

Despite what the UK gutter press are carolling about – i.e. that this vote showed the PM to be weak, etc, etc – I don't in fact think this is the case. If anything it will strengthen his position when he goes to the negotiations in continental Europe.

The power bloc in Europe have never listened to us. on finance matters, and never will. He couldn't get anything last time,on the budget, and he won't this time either.

It is not just him anyone doing his job would be in the same position.

EU suggest inflation busting budget, some member states squeal, EU "negotiates" RPI increase and gets what it wants.

John_Pierpoint

I've found the other side of the equation, 40% of the EU's wasted expenditure (I knew we had done this topic somewhere before):
[Some Devon land owner/ farmer tried to defend his subsidies but refused to put any figures on the table. I think the figures that are quoted are only the direct tax figures and do not include the higher food prices we are forced to pay by the banning of some imports into the EU and the tariff wall against others.]

Everyone should read this to understand how the EU intends to waste those increased taxes.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/47913153#Comment_47913153

John_Pierpoint

List of rebel MPs in EU budget vote

MINORITY PARTIES FOR AMDT

TORY REBELS

ABSENT TORIES

Steve Baker

Nigel Adams

DUP

John Baron

Adam Afriyie

Nigel Dodds – DUP

Andrew Bingham

Graham Brady

Jeffrey Donaldson – DUP

Brian Binley

Glyn Davies

Ian Paisley – DUP

Andrew Bridgen

Liam Fox

Jim Shannon – DUP

Aidan Burley

Roger Gale

Sammy Wilson – DUP

Conner Burns

Robert Halfon

Douglas Carswell

Jason McCartney

GREEN

William Cash

Patrick Mercer

Caroline Lucas – Green

Christopher Chope

Priti Patel

James Clappison

John Stanley

SNP

Tracey Crouch

Rory Stewart

Stuart Hosey – SNP

Philip Davies

Charles Walker

Angus McNeill – SNP

David Davis

Angus Robertson – SNP

Nick de Bois

Mike Weir – SNP

Nadine Dorries

Eilidh Whiteford – SNP

Richard Drax

Pete Wishart – SNP

Zac Goldsmith

James Gray

Chris Heaton-Harris

Gordon Henderson

Adam Holloway

Stewart Jackson

Bernard Jenkin

Chris Kelly

Edward Leigh

Julian Lewis

Jack Lopresti

Anne Main

Karl McCartney

Stephen McPartland

Nigel Mills

David Nuttall

Andrew Percy

Mark Pritchard

Mark Reckless

John Redwood

Simon Reevell

Laurence Robertson

Andrew Rosindell

David Ruffley

Richard Shepherd

Henry Smith

Bob Stewart

Peter Tapsell

Andrew Turner

Martin Vickers

James Wharton

Heather Wheeler

John Whittingdale

Sarah Wollaston

Philip Hollobone - Teller

Peter Bone – Teller

GeorgeHowell

Wookster wrote: »

But this vote is also a damning verdict on the lunatic side of the tory party, the fact that some are willing to side with Labour to undermine their own leader beggars belief.

That's not the way it was. Labour decided to side with the Tory rebels in order to embarass the coalition government to the maximum. This is the same Labour Party that gave away a big chunk of the UK rebate in 2005 and got absolutely nothing in return.

Why is is lunatic to stand up for the interests of the British people against a corrupt, wasteful, and undemocratic quasi-governmental set up ?

Even Mandelson said today that we have reached the point where it now beholds those who favour staying in the EU to make their case.

Perhaps someone would like to do that on this forum ?

grizzly1911

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

This is the same Labour Party that gave away a big chunk of the UK rebate in 2005 and got absolutely nothing in return.

Not quite the same but I take the point you are making.

Those pesky politicians twisting and turning eh?

John_Pierpoint

Last evening Radio 4 PM programme featured a moderated debate between (two?) Polish bods (Prof. + MEP) and rebel Adam Holloway.
[Obviously men of honour and in to way influenced by UK paying in and Poland drawing out] This is obviously a slight pr!cis but the actual warts and all "discussion" is available from the BBC web site.
Holloway v Polish
- more and more EU tasks to do as approved by the states and the EU parliament.
- This is a slight increase in real terms.
- This is not a charity Britain has a contractual obligation .
- Britain profits from the single market
- 5% is modest.
- It will be a difficult summit with Britain wanting 0%
- The French and the Germans are in the middle.
- The British Parliament has voted against throwing more money at the EU.
- There is nothing modest about these amounts.
- People are cuts against a background of a massive increase in borrowing:-
- Police, Public sector, Pensioners, Soldiers are all facing cuts.
- So no more Dosh.
- 1% is a minor minor amount of the national budget.
- These tasks have to be financed
- Rethink your membership ~ go join Norway & Switzerland.
- You cannot have your cake and eat it.
- You have been to the restaurant so now pay the bill.
- I go to the a restaurant and then pay for the meal, I don't choose to pay a club fee.
- Europe is just part of the global economy.
- European economies are completely "stuffed".
- You would think that the EU would take a leadership role.
- But it expects us to struggle to borrow more and more and leave it to our GG grandchildren to repay.
Public order is becoming a bigger and bigger issue in the EU.
<intervention>
- I have no "greater goal".
- My constituents in Gravesend are good people leading increasingly difficult lives.
- I came her on a bicycle,.
- In Brussels I could pick up a chaufer driven Merc. and be taken anywhere within 40 km.
- Please leave & join Norway & Switzerland - who incidentally DO pay their contribution.
- So someone from Poland is telling our grandchildren to get into debt!
- The will of our parliament is that the EU should take some of the pain too.
- Have you seen the terms and conditions of the people in the EU embassies and compared them with our civil servants?.............
- THEY ARE OUT OF CONTROL.

John_Pierpoint

Meanwhile I believe this is the party line:

To be utterly clear, the Government would love to see real cuts to the EU budget!

The Prime Minister has made very clear that we're already going for the toughest position that any Prime Minister has ever gone for in EU Budget negotiations, which is a freeze in EU spending; we are also going for cuts to the CAP, to the EU's admin budget and for the recycling of money that happens when the EU gives regional funding to relatively rich countries.

However, we have to be realistic. When 17 of the other 26 countries are net gainers from the Budget, asking the Prime Minister to demand a real terms cut or veto the deal is likely to lead to annual budgets, decided by qualified majority voting and jointly with the European Parliament.

This would be likely to cost British taxpayers more than now.

The alternative of getting a real terms freeze is a difficult thing to deliver, but targeting that in the next multi-year EU budget (Multiannual Financial Framework/MFF) is probably the best deal we can actually deliver for British taxpayers.

We can veto this - and we will if we don't get a real terms freeze: no deal is better than a bad deal - but the veto won't leave us in the best place. If there's no agreement then ultimately we move to a position where we could well pay more.

A real terms freeze would still be an unprecedented achievement, the toughest EU budget settlement ever. There has never been a real terms freeze from one MFF to the next before - the current one is 8% bigger in real terms than the last. And we're also going to block any changes to the rebate and any new EU taxes.

With regard to Labours position, they are being completely opportunistic and hypocritical about this.

In Government they signed off bigger EU budgets and gave away £7 billion of our rebate. Their MEPs are calling for more EU spending. Their Socialist Group allies are calling for new EU taxes, abolition of our rebate and a bigger EU budget. Now, suddenly, Labour is allegedly in favour of a smaller EU budget. That has zero credibility.
The Government is acting in the best interests of the British Taxpayer.