11 plus

GemmaB78

I've not read the whole thread so apologies if any of this has already been said.

My sister and I grew up in Kent. I passed the 11+ and went to my local girls' grammar school; my sister didn't and went to a nearby non-selective. We both thrived in our Respective schools BUT neither would have been happy if we swapped. I am more academic than my more rounded, sporty sister. I thrived on being pushed to achieve my potential, my sister would have buckled. Yet we both have degrees and ironically are now both teachers: my sister in primary schools, me in secondary teaching maths.

If, and only if, you feel your child has the nature to be able to cope with the heavy workload and high expectations that a grammar school will place on child then by all means push them. But only if you feel it the right environment for your child.

pinkshoes

My mum has been a grammar school teacher for 20 years.

She can tell you exactly which children have been coached through the 11+, and which passed through natural ability.

She will also tell you that most who were coached and only just got through spend the majority of their school years at the bottom of the class and miserable, and would have been far happier at another school where they would have the chance to excel and shine.

If you have a kindle and a prime account on Amazon, I believe there are some books you can "borrow" for free...

If your child just scrapes through the 11+ despite coaching, then PLEASE think long and hard about which school to send them to.

bhatti3000

spammy29 wrote: »

My son sat the 11+ last month, so waiting for the results to come out on the 30/11. I also have 2 children at the non-grammar secondary school.

Unfortunately the way the Buckinghamshire 11+ is set up, most kids will need about a year's preparation as the state schools can't provide anything except 5 sessions of familiaristion and three practice tests, in my area of Bucks the majority of children who pass are either from private schools who can teach the 11+ as much as they want, or the children of parents could afford tuition. The other option is tutoring them yourself, but you do need lots of patience! Also you child must be willing to put in the effort or it will just become a chore for them.

The test is 2 papers of 80 questions to be completed in 50 mins each on separate days, the best books for the Bucks test are the Internet Primary School ones, every area has a different type of test, so the tests. for the schools in for example Slough or Watford are different to the Bucks one.

The pass mark is 121 out of 141 but the raw score is adjusted according to age. I did know of one girl who was not only a year younger than everyone else (she had been moved up a year) but got the top mark.

Literacy is a very big part of it, get your children reading dictionaries and a thesausus, looking up new words, practicing their mental maths. Websites like Chukra are full of free resources.

Lots of children travel from outside Bucks to the Grammar schools, I see them in the morning getting on trains from London. The 11+ does cream the top 30 % off the the school year, there is a vast contrast between the resources available in the grammar schools in South Bucks and the ordinary secondary schools, one I visited used i-pads in the classrooms, whereas my two at secondary school have to buy their own reading books for English and I've been given a list of revision books to buy for GCSEs!

Unfortunately if you live in Bucks and you have a bright child it's the game you have to play, I would prefer not to have to but sometimes I feel that the school that my older two are at is more of an exercise in containment than anything else.

what were the two papers your child took? math, english, verbal or non verbal?
thanks

sillygoose

pinkshoes wrote: »

My mum has been a grammar school teacher for 20 years.

She can tell you exactly which children have been coached through the 11+, and which passed through natural ability.

.

Which ones are those then? the ones raised in the jungle by apes from birth only to be discovered in time to sit an 11+ paper and pass by instinct? :doh:

All children need teaching enough to pass the test whether they have strong 'natural abilities' or not - the 11+ is not an IQ test!

I can assure you the most brilliant child isn't going to pass anything if their education is under par, and I for one don't intend finding out if it is, or isn't by opening the 11+ result envelope...a bit too late. Coaching for us!

If coaching is needed to fill in the gaps or boost the preparedness then ability doesn't necessarily even come into it.

spammy29

Both the papers are in verbal reasoning. Children in Buckinghamshire who don't attend private school have to be coached either at home or by a tutor because it is not covered by the National Curriculum. There are 21 different types of questions, most related to literacy, some maths.

Would it be fair to put these questions in front of a child that has had no sort of tutoring, whether at home or in a class?

Type A question: In the question below, find the one letter that will complete the word in front of the brackets and begin the word after the brackets. The same letter must fit into both sets of brackets.

BLAS( )REASON SHOR( )RIP

C E D T A


Type R question: In the question below, the three words in the second group should go together in the same way as the three in the first group

lint [liner] term

drop [ ? ] even


Type N: Three of these four words are given in code. The code are not written in the same order as the words and one code are missing.

MICE MACE TAME COAT
1256 5246 4321

Find the code for the word TEAM
Find the code for the word COME
Find the word for the code 5216


Type P: In this question you need to find the number that should appear in the brackets and continues the series in the most sensible way

1, 5, 8, 12, 15, (?)


Remember it's 80 questions in 50 minutes. As the letter that we all received from the county said " it is not a measure of a child's intelligence or IQ". What it really is a test of whose parents have time or money for tutoring.

The average mark is 112, but the pass mark is 121. The highest mark of the two papers is used.

JC9297

spammy29 wrote: »

Would it be fair to put these questions in front of a child that has had no sort of tutoring, whether at home or in a class?

Type A question: In the question below, find the one letter that will complete the word in front of the brackets and begin the word after the brackets. The same letter must fit into both sets of brackets.

BLAS( )REASON SHOR( )RIP

C E D T A


Type R question: In the question below, the three words in the second group should go together in the same way as the three in the first group

lint [liner] term

drop [ ? ] even


Type N: Three of these four words are given in code. The code are not written in the same order as the words and one code are missing.

MICE MACE TAME COAT
1256 5246 4321

Find the code for the word TEAM
Find the code for the word COME
Find the word for the code 5216


Type P: In this question you need to find the number that should appear in the brackets and continues the series in the most sensible way

1, 5, 8, 12, 15, (?)


Remember it's 80 questions in 50 minutes. As the letter that we all received from the county said " it is not a measure of a child's intelligence or IQ". What it really is a test of whose parents have time or money for tutoring.

The average mark is 112, but the pass mark is 121. The highest mark of the two papers is used.

Actually it would be fair, I would expect the sort of child that should be getting into grammar school to be able to work out how to do these sort of problems without intensive coaching, that would be a test of their intelligence.

However because most of the other children will have been taught how to answer them they would be disadvantaged. Basically if nobody coached their children and they all did it 'blind' you'd get a far more accurate idea of who the most naturally able were.

shays_mum

Here's the thing my dd passed all the 11+ papers she sat & this is with a disability (no sen help unfortunately), but then she has always been studious.
You will know in your heart of hearts if they are capable, if you feel they are, then additional help should be focused on giving them the knowledge on HOW to answer papers IN the time allocated.

Kids can have all the knowledge in the world, but like any exam they need to prove their knowledge in a certain way, as asked for by examiners.

Now to see if dd got a place *wish me luck eh!* x

meer53

spammy29 wrote: »

Would it be fair to put these questions in front of a child that has had no sort of tutoring, whether at home or in a class?

Thats the whole idea of the NVR tests, to see which children have the aptitude to work out how to answer the questions. You can't teach NVR thats why they include it in the tests.

silvercar

meer53 wrote: »

Thats the whole idea of the NVR tests, to see which children have the aptitude to work out how to answer the questions. You can't teach NVR thats why they include it in the tests.

But familiarity with the tests will help. It will help with speed and it will help calm a nervous child.

mrcow

meer53 wrote: »

Thats the whole idea of the NVR tests, to see which children have the aptitude to work out how to answer the questions. You can't teach NVR thats why they include it in the tests.

Yes you can teach it.

There is a skill to learn what to look for and what patterns/changes to recognise. It's all quite straightforward.