Should we renegotiate asking price?

Fire_Fox

Ivana_Tinkle wrote: »

Oh, how convenient for them!

We can all make guesses at how much it might cost, but there's no way this is £2-3k of work and there's no point renegotiating before you find out exactly what's going on and how much it's going to cost.

How much do you think? I am thinking £5K because they will have to install new gas meters and possibly a proper supply to each flat, but my knowledge of such matters is out of date.

Ivana_Tinkle

It's how long is a piece of string, isn't it? The fact that the vendors didn't even give a ballpark figure rings huge alarm bells for me. Surely you'd remember, at least to the nearest £1k, how much it was.

The cost of materials alone sounds like more than £2k per flat. I can't see it being less than £5k, but I can envisage it being an awful lot more (eg if they find asbestos when ripping bits out, or if there's big management fees).

sweetpeagreen

Ivana_Tinkle wrote: »

Oh, how convenient for them!

We can all make guesses at how much it might cost, but there's no way this is £2-3k of work and there's no point renegotiating before you find out exactly what's going on and how much it's going to cost.

I don't think the vendors are trying to pull a fast one. They don't live in the property apart from a week a year at most hence them selling, and the talks about the upgrade works have been ongoing for many years. They were obviously aware of the costs as it is documented, and they sent this to the estate agent to forward to us. But I can understand them not remembering the exact figures off the top of their heads.

We will of course find out the exact situation and costs before renegotiating. We told the estate agent we need this info tomorrow. We will actually be in the area so will pop in in person too to ask for the info whilst there.

After reading all your comments it has made me realise that yes we would be well within our rights to renegotiate - oh gawd! The whole mortgage application has been so stressful, and now this! I hope this doesn't make the whole thing fall through, I really don't want that! i willing to be flexible if needed with price...

sweetpeagreen

Fire_Fox wrote: »

IMO you are focussing too much on the financial side and not enough on the works themselves. I don't think you can decide what your next move is until you have read the proposals and the long lease to see if these works are actually chargeable, and if you still want to go ahead or ask more questions.

I would be wanting to know the arrangements for maintaining all the gas services, what if one flat does not service their boiler and blows the block up? What is the expected impact on the buildings insurance if any? Have you established for certain whether you can or cannot make any changes to the plans at this stage? Assume nothing, if it is going to be central heating you may be able to retain your old radiators if you make a fuss.

Your solicitor would normally ask the freeholder a raft of questions, including about major works. If you show him the documents he may amend his questions to take account of this. There is no point renegotiating the price then getting more information from the freeholder and wanting to negotiate again.

Some great questions for us to pose - thank you :T will certainly be getting the answers to these questions

Fire_Fox

Ivana_Tinkle wrote: »

It's how long is a piece of string, isn't it? The fact that the vendors didn't even give a ballpark figure rings huge alarm bells for me. Surely you'd remember, at least to the nearest £1k, how much it was.

The cost of materials alone sounds like more than £2k per flat. I can't see it being less than £5k, but I can envisage it being an awful lot more (eg if they find asbestos when ripping bits out, or if there's big management fees).

Oh I'd forgotten to factor in management fees! :eek:

sweetpeagreen

Hi everyone, thank yo so far for all your input!

I have finally tracked down the details of the works, after chasing the solicitor and EA but not getting anywhere! I called the property management team myself and they emailed me all the docs.

The works are due to commence Jan, and will be in three phases:

1) Phase one removes the old original coal storage box things and rubbish shoot in the back stairwells, to make place for the individual boilers to be fitted (this is outside each flats back door).

2) Fit the boilers and new water tanks etc

3) Update pipes and fit new modern radiators in the flat.

The total cost of the works is approx 9k!!!!!!!!!!!! 9K!!!!!!

Payments will be made in three stages inline with the work schedule.

The flat we're buying would be one of the first to be worked on.

If we opt out of the scheme, the communal boiler etc is going, so we will have to make out own arrangements for the work to be done. The building is listed (art deco) and would require planning permission due to vents etc being visible to the outside of the block, so I'd rather go ahead with the management companies plans than have the hassle myself.

However - where are we going to find this money from?! And I'm very annoyed that this wasn't made apparent to us when viewing and at offer stage - although I'm not surprised by the EA's, they have a reputation for a reason.

We are going to have to negotiate a lower price for the property. Does anyone have any tips about how to go about this etc?

I'm putting myself in the vendors shoes, and now can clearly see the above imminent works are their reasons to want to sell! They only live in the property a week or so of the year at most, as they relocated abroad 7 years ago.

We will actually have access to about 10k in the summer, but this was planned for modernisation works as it's very dated in there, It needs new flooring, bathroom, kitchen etc, and decorating throughout. So we don't want to be forced to use this.

Would it be fair to ask for the full price of the works - 9k - to be deducted from the accepted offer price?

Fire_Fox

No wonder the estate agents kept that quiet. Even if you renegotiate price that just makes your mortgage smaller so you will still have to find £9K. One option might be to increase your mortgage after you have done a certain amount of modernisation IF that increases the value of the property. Another option is you drag your heels so that the vendors have to pay for the first phase OR you make payment for that phase a condition of the sale. Third option is to make sure you keep the radiators and sell them, don't let the plumbers helpfully take them away!

Have you read the long lease and determined the works are actually chargeable? Have you checked with the Listed Buildings Officer at the council to see if it covers the exterior only or the interior as well?

If the work is staged could you opt into part of the work that covers the vents but out of some other parts and see if you can retain the old radiators? You could do some of the heating at the same time as doing the bathroom and kitchen. You might decide you want underfloor heating or kickspace heaters in some areas. You won't need heating until this time next year, and even then you don't need heating in the entire property if you are clever - but obviously you do need hot water throughout unless you have a gym membership or showers at work!

Ivana_Tinkle

I was going to say £10k! Then I thought I was being too cynical so I deleted my post. Sorry - that's no help at all. So, onwards and upwards...

You really need to consider whether this flat is for you. You're buying something very different to what you thought when you put in your offer. Even if you get the full amount off (and you should certainly ask for - and expect to get - that), would you have paid the same price if you knew you were going to be faced with this level of distruption and losing some of the flat's period features? Bear in mind that you won't be employing the contractors directly, so the works are going to be beyond your control in terms of timing etc - it's not the same as when you're renovating a property yourself.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to drop your offer by more than £9k.

john_white

Hmmm

Regardless if you live there or not, you get a quote for 9k you remember it surely, so where did 2k come from?

The fact that works are starting there should have been section 20 notices - why has your solicitor not got these?

9k assumes they don't find anything unexpected, not just in your flat but all the flats.

I'd want more than 9k off, or agree the vendor foots the bill, tricky one though.

Also, ripping out the CH and HW in January!? How long will you be without these? Put it another way, this means once you move in renovation works begin, is that something you wanted to happen.

Personally I'd go for 15k off. 10k for the works and 5k for misleading info.

If they don't agree, well, not many people will offer with major works pending, they'll have to pay for the works, some of the period features will no longer be there to entice prospective buyers, plus it will be feb before they can realistically re-market it.

Ivana_Tinkle

Just thinking about this more: it sounds like the works could, potentially, reduce the flat's value. (Personally, I'd prefer the old-fashioned radiators to new ones, no matter how much more efficient the modern ones are!)

Plus, if the works are starting in Jan, then there is absolutely no way the vendors could possibly have forgotten how much they were going to cost. If you spoke to them in person and they managed to convince you that they had then they're very good liars, and that's something to bear in mind when negotiating with them!

Also worth bearing in mind that, if they don't sell before Christmas, they're going to be trying to sell with the works actually going on, so they must be feeling slightly desperate by now.