Child Benefit Farce

MacMickster

dori2o wrote: »

If you don't want to have the tax charge, then have your wife elect to not have the payments which is one of the options available to you.

Then you don't have to worry about the charge at all.

You missed a previous thread where a certain equine contributor doesn't want to let his wife know how much he earns (presumably as she might want an extra bob or two for housekeeping), but also obviously wouldn't dare to call Mrs TWH lefty scum for claiming benefits, nor put his hoof down and insist that she stops claiming.

TWH sounds more like a gelding to me.

Generali

The_White_Horse wrote: »

I would be quite happy for CB to be cut entirely. What I don't like is:

(a) people on higher incomes getting a benefit that people on lower incomes are prohibited to collect

(b) a party being taxed for a benefit they don't even claim

If the Govt said (a) we are stopping all CB or (b) we are stopping all CB for HOUSEHOLDS with an income over £60k or (c) we are allowing a family tax free limit - which is double the single persons - then I would not have any issue.

all three of my ideas are perfectly fair.

The world isn't fair though.

What does it matter anyway, if you earn £60,000 or £98,000 you are in the top few percent of earners in the UK. A tenner or fifteen quid a week more or less is going to make pretty much no difference.

Seriously, if you're earning that much and worrying about change down the back of the sofa money you might want to reassess your priorities.

Generali

DaddyBear wrote: »

And yet millionaire pensioners are still getting a winter fuel allowance and free buss pass. I don't mind taking a hit, as long as we are all being treated fairly, which clearly is not the case. Those in the middle are being squeezed to benefit the rich and the poor. I expected better from the Tories.

Bus passes? Seriously! People on £60,000 a year are not middle earners they are rich people.

PaulF81

Generali wrote: »

Bus passes? Seriously! People on £60,000 a year are not middle earners they are rich people.

but how will one afford the staaaafff?

ukcarper

Generali wrote: »

Bus passes? Seriously! People on £60,000 a year are not middle earners they are rich people.

90% percentile in 2011 ASHE for all employees is £47k

GeorgeHowell

Generali wrote: »

Bus passes? Seriously! People on £60,000 a year are not middle earners they are rich people.

A family of four or five with one earner on £60,000 before tax, and a mortgage, living in a high cost area like London, and with no other significant source of income or wealth is not rich. Comfortable, and should be able to keep their heads above water, yes. But not rich. I expect that "rich" these days is subject to the same relativistic definition as "poor", in terms of being above or below a certain threshold level relative to average income. Both terms therefore become meaningless to ordinary people. To me rich means someone who, barring doing something stupid or suffering rare and unexpected financial catastrophe, is financially secure for life. And to me poor means enduring a lifestyle which the vast majority of reasonable people would regard as unacceptably harsh and deprived.

Having said that I don't believe that anyone on £60,000 should be receiving any kind of state benefits under normal circumstances.

ukcarper

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

A family of four or five with one earner on £60,000 before tax, and a mortgage, living in a high cost area like London, and with no other significant source of income or wealth is not rich. Comfortable, and should be able to keep their heads above water, yes. But not rich. I expect that "rich" these days is subject to the same relativistic definition as "poor", in terms of being above or below a certain threshold level relative to average income. Both terms therefore become meaningless to ordinary people. To me rich means someone who, barring doing something stupid or suffering rare and unexpected financial catastrophe, is financially secure for life. And to me poor means enduring a lifestyle which the vast majority of reasonable people would regard as unacceptably harsh and deprived.

Having said that I don't believe that anyone on £60,000 should be receiving any kind of state benefits under normal circumstances.

Yet 80% 0f people working in London earn less than £45.5k and only 10% earn more than £64.2k.

Zero_Sum

The_White_Horse wrote: »

how can it in any way be fair that a household with one £60k earner loses all their CB but a househould on a combined £98k keeps it all??????

This is surely one of the most barmy inefficient ways to administer the cut.

Surely stopping it at age 12 (when both parents could easily work) or capping it for two kids only would be much fairer. Or even AT THE VERY LEAST base it on household income, not one salary!!!!

this is a sickening assault on the middle class tax payers that are the backbone and contributors of 90% of all taxes. Disgraceful.

and all the extra work for HMRC with hundreds of thousands of extra self assessment forms. All because Osbouse is a weak cretin affraid to do what actually needs to be done.

Isn't it being done like this as its the cheapest way to administer. Means testing would be expensive.

Suppose thats the Tory's for you, doing whats cost effective, rather than what fair.

BobQ

There is no fair way to pay a universal benefit.

For some benefits like a bus pass for those above retirement age, you can argue that because of their small value it is not economic to means test the benefit, even though you might accept it would be fairer if those above a certain income (say average income) did not receive the benefit.

Child benefit is much more substatial in value and some means is required to stop the well paid (like TWH) from claiming it. This new system is in some cases unfair but is relatively simple to administer and is a necessary step in this process. I am sure that there are better and fairer ways of doing this but the present system will suffice until that arrives.

Generali

ukcarper wrote: »

90% percentile in 2011 ASHE for all is £47k

Indeed. And median household income is about £27,000 from memory.