Damp in Rented House

EstherWillows

I have a friend who is renting a student house. They viewed the property three times and there were no visible problems. About a week after they moved in they noticed a mark on the wall. The landlord's daughter came round and said it was not damp (she touched it, her hand was wet). It is clearly rising damp and is very wet to touch. It is now about a meter and a half off the floor. They were not happy with this so they contacted her again and she brought a dehumidifier out of storage. They ran it solidly for a week and the situation did improve but as soon as they turned it off it came back like before within the week. They can't afford to keep it running permanently. They have mentioned it on a regualar basis. The Landlord's daughter knows what it is, she is just pretending to not understand the situation. One of her housemates suffers from chest infections (he had four last year) and whilst he has not had one this year yet they have been there less than a month and he doesn't spend that much time in that room because of it. Another housemate has penetrating damp in thier bedroom.

Basically they want to know if they have any legal rights, either to repair or compensation for it. They live in a student area where the houses are generally in poor repair and rent is high for the standard of accomodation. They really like the landlord, but his daughters deal with things mainly. They all work and have little time for the properties he owns (14). Sometimes they are very good at sorting things but they are just not bothered and are basically denying the problem. They have had a couple of other niggles with the house, some of which have been sorted fast and some they have dragged thier heels on. They signed a contract with a clause stating they would provide a larger table for food preperation which has not appeared. They don't want to sour the relationship they have but the do want the problem sorted.

Esther

Fire_Fox

Welcome! It's worth running an advanced search, damp issues come up several times a week. Is the rising damp only in one spot or a whole wall/ whole room? Has the DPC outside the wall(s) been breached? How do you know there is penetrating damp in the bedroom? Compensation for what, what losses have they suffered?

If the students are ventilating the place effectively (opening windows daily year round) and being sure not to release too much water into the home (shower with window open or extractor fan on and door closed during and after, NO air drying laundry indoors, lids on pans when cooking) then write to the landlord asking him to investigate the damp patches emphasising that one tenant is prone to chest infections. If there is no response contact Environmental Health at the local council.

EstherWillows

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Welcome! It's worth running an advanced search, damp issues come up several times a week. Is the rising damp only in one spot or a whole wall/ whole room? Has the DPC outside the wall(s) been breached? How do you know there is penetrating damp in the bedroom? Compensation for what, what losses have they suffered?

If the students are ventilating the place effectively (opening windows daily year round) and being sure not to release too much water into the home (shower with window open or extractor fan on and door closed during and after, NO air drying laundry indoors, lids on pans when cooking) then write to the landlord asking him to investigate the damp patches emphasising that one tenant is prone to chest infections. If there is no response contact Environmental Health at the local council.

Thanks! The rising damp is across the whole wall. They have not had it professionally assessed but it is very wet to the touch, there is a tide mark and skirting board is rotten. They are not really after compensation, more money off thier rent as they are not getting what they paid/signed for (a sound house).

Ventilation is not an issue. They are still using the dehumidifier three days and nights a week. They are just a bit reluctant to go down EH route as they want to keep things friendly with the owners.

Esther

Fire_Fox

So why do they want compensation, don't they just want a dry house? I don't really know what you want us to say, why ask if they have legal rights and then refuse to go to Environmental Health?

EstherWillows

Fire_Fox wrote: »

So why do they want compensation, don't they just want a dry house? I don't really know what you want us to say, why ask if they have legal rights and then refuse to go to Environmental Health?

Yes, ideally they do want a dry house, they were not sure if it was possible to legally enforce. If it wasn't something they were legally entitled to (a dry house) we wondered if they were entitled to get some money back as some sort of breach of contract in the tenancy agreement. They were not sure if there was anything they could do before EH, they have not refused to go down that route, but they were hoping to exhaust all options before this if there were any.

Esther

Fire_Fox

EstherWillows wrote: »

Yes, ideally they do want a dry house, they were not sure if it was possible to legally enforce. If it wasn't something they were legally entitled to (a dry house) we wondered if they were entitled to get some money back as some sort of breach of contract in the tenancy agreement. They were not sure if there was anything they could do before EH, they have not refused to go down that route, but they were hoping to exhaust all options before this if there were any.

Esther

It is possible to legally enforce repairs which Environmental Health have the powers to do, and I did suggest a route prior to that - writing a letter - which you have completely ignored. I could suggest a solicitor but this being MSE I suggested the free route, and arguably that is more inflammatory than EH.

What other method do you want that is more than the tenants formally negotiating themselves but less than bringing the appropriate outside agency in to negotiate for them? What breach of the tenancy agreement, is there a clause about damp? How is reducing the rent going to stop the other tenant getting a chest infection?

Fire_Fox

What does the tenant have to do if there is disrepair?

As a tenant you will need to give notice of any disrepair. The landlord will not be responsible until they know about the problem. There is no breach of their obligations if the landlord carries out the necessary repairs within a reasonable time. The landlord should reply to the tenant within a reasonable time after receiving the tenant’s letter.

At this point, the landlord should show the tenant all relevant documents, and confirm whether they accept responsibility, and if so, what action(s) they will take to fix the problem.

If no satisfactory response is received the tenant may start court action.

Alternatives to going to court

Going to court should in most cases be the last resort for the tenant. Before going to court, a tenant should consider:

• negotiation, mediation, or alternative dispute resolution
• using the landlord’s official complaints procedure.

If you are a council or housing association tenant, consider:

• using the right to repair scheme, and/or
• complaining to the Local Government Ombudsman, the Housing Ombudsman, or
• your council’s environmental health department.

Environmental health

Your council’s environmental health officers (EHOs) have the right to serve a repair notice on landlords when:

• the property requires substantial repairs to bring it up to a reasonable standard
• the disrepair interferes with the personal comfort of the occupiers
• there is a nuisance – this means that there is something affecting your property that interferes with the quiet and peaceful enjoyment of your property.

Be aware that for certain private tenancies you can be evicted fairly easily, so get advice before you complain.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/disrepair_in_rented_accommodation/what_is_disrepair


How do I report repair problems?

If you notice anything wrong with the property, for example, a damp patch on the wall or a crack in the ceiling, report the problem to your landlord (or your landlord's agent) as soon as possible, even if you're not that bothered about getting it fixed. Most landlords do carry out repairs once they know about them.

Reporting problems is often a condition of many tenancy agreements, so if you don't do it, your landlord may try to take money out of your deposit. Don't wait until the problem has got really bad - it might end up costing more to put right.

It is always best to report any problems in writing. By all means tell them in person or by phone, but you should follow this up with a letter. Date your letter and keep a copy. It always helps to have a written record, proving that your landlord was aware of the problem, in case you have problems getting them to do the work. We've produced a sample letter reporting repairs needed which you may be able to adapt.

Getting evidence

Often the landlord will carry out the necessary repairs. However if you need to take any further action, you should collect all the evidence you can of the repairs that are needed, and what you have done to get your landlord to carry them out. For example, you could:

• take photographs of the things that need repairing
• keep belongings that have been affected (such as clothes damaged by dampness), or take photographs of them. Work out how much they are worth
• get an expert (eg an environmental health officer from the council) to inspect your home
• keep copies of any letters you send to your landlord, and any written response you have received from them
• always make a note of any conversations you have with your landlord. Include dates, and what was agreed
• keep copies of any doctor's notes or hospital reports which show that your health has been affected by the problem
• keep receipts for any money you need to spend because of the repair problem (eg if you have to replace clothes or furnishings because of mould).

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/disrepair_in_rented_accommodation/repairs_in_private_lets/reporting_repairs_to_a_landlord

EstherWillows

Fire_Fox wrote: »

It is possible to legally enforce repairs which Environmental Health have the powers to do, and I did suggest a route prior to that - writing a letter - which you have completely ignored. I could suggest a solicitor but this being MSE I suggested the free route, and arguably that is more inflammatory than EH.

What other method do you want that is more than the tenants formally negotiating themselves but less than bringing the appropriate outside agency in to negotiate for them? What breach of the tenancy agreement, is there a clause about damp? How is reducing the rent going to stop the other tenant getting a chest infection?

Well that's lovely. I wish I never asked. I don't know why you feel the need to be rude to me. I am sorry I did not respond directly to each point you made, but I have not ignored writing a letter. I have passed this on to my friend but she has already emailed several times and is confident that it will have an effect. I never asked you for another method. If there was no legal right to a dry house I was interested if there was a right to have money taken off. I have told you before I do not think that money will prevent a chest infection, but if he cannot use a room then I wondered if there was some sort of reduction they were entitled to. There is no clause about damp, but there is as you have pointed out they have a right to a dry house so I assume this overrides anything written in the contract or not.

I don't think I will be posting here again. I got a lovely and supportive answer on another forum whilst you have only been unkind.

tbs624

EstherWillows - it's a tad unfair IMO to say that Fire Fox has "only been unkind" It is too easy in forum land to take offence because of the lack of facial clues.

She has welcomed you to MSE and given you some helpful pointers.

Seeking a rent reduction is effectively saying that if the LL agreed to do that then the Ts are okay with living in a damp property.

Can't say that I understand Ts who feel they have a "good relationship" with their LL, if that LL fails to acts promptly on damp and or maintenance issues such as rotten interior wordwork and wet walls,. Note that some LLs do however deliberately use their personal charm in a way that they hope means that their Ts *won't* pursue [edit: any] repairs obligations.

The Ts do need to ensure that they personally do all they can to help keep damp/condensation at bay so as not to exacerbate any problems. ( Most Councils have an online page or pdf on this)

Damp and mould are recognised as "housing hazards" under what is called the HHSRS ( housing health and safety rating system) The local Council can arrange for the property to be assessed under HHSRS and, if the LL fails to get any necessary work done, the Council have specific powers of enforcement under the serving of Improvement Notices.

Have the Ts obtained this property via the Uni accomms office? If yes , the LL is usually required to meet a specific code of practice. Have they spoken to the Uni welfare office or accomms officer?

On the table issue , yes, the LL *should* supply one if they agreed in writing to do so. However, you can get second hand tables pretty cheaply or even free via Freecycle or Freegle and the small ads. So the Ts could source one themselves and if a cost is involved then they take a decision to either just divvy up between them or ask the LL if they would pay for this fantastic table that they have managed to find. If they pay for it themselves they just re-sell when it is time to move on .Job done.

Fire_Fox

EstherWillows wrote: »

Well that's lovely. I wish I never asked. I don't know why you feel the need to be rude to me. I am sorry I did not respond directly to each point you made, but I have not ignored writing a letter. I have passed this on to my friend but she has already emailed several times and is confident that it will have an effect. I never asked you for another method. If there was no legal right to a dry house I was interested if there was a right to have money taken off. I have told you before I do not think that money will prevent a chest infection, but if he cannot use a room then I wondered if there was some sort of reduction they were entitled to. There is no clause about damp, but there is as you have pointed out they have a right to a dry house so I assume this overrides anything written in the contract or not.

I don't think I will be posting here again. I got a lovely and supportive answer on another forum whilst you have only been unkind.

I have not been unkind, I have been both helpful and frustrated. The correct procedure is to write to the landlord then contact EH, I spent time searching the Shelter website to demonstrate to you that is not my opinion it is standard practice. Not liking my posting style or not liking the solutions proposed doesn't make my suggestions any the less valid.

You have already indicated an unwillingness to approach EH and in this post you dismiss writing a letter, incorrectly second guessing the reason I suggested it and predicting the result. E-mails are not letters, landlords often sit up and take more notice of a youngster who communicates formally, even if they do not you have started a paper trail. The Shelter links explain the purpose of the letter and even gives you the template. Can't you understand why I am frustrated when you ask advice and then dismiss all the suggestions?

EstherWillows

Fire_Fox wrote: »

I have not been unkind, I have been both helpful and frustrated. The correct procedure is to write to the landlord then contact EH, I spent time searching the Shelter website to demonstrate to you that is not my opinion it is standard practice. Not liking my posting style or not liking the solutions proposed doesn't make my suggestions any the less valid.

You have already indicated an unwillingness to approach EH and in this post you dismiss writing a letter, incorrectly second guessing the reason I suggested it and predicting the result. E-mails are not letters, landlords often sit up and take more notice of a youngster who communicates formally, even if they do not you have started a paper trail. The Shelter links explain the purpose of the letter and even gives you the template. Can't you understand why I am frustrated when you ask advice and then dismiss all the suggestions?

I had already accessed the shelter site. It provided useful advice about the legal situation. I have never second guessed the reason for writing a letter. I have never dismissed writing a letter, I do however feel that it is a poor second to email as it is not traceable and is equally formal. I deal with all companies in this way now and for anyone with internet access it is the preferred method of contact. To be honest I feel you have judged me and my friend as a "youngster" and have doubted our assessment of the situation as damp and have assumed that my friend has caused it in her behavior.