Landlord witholding deposit,no scheme used, help with court claim please!

Missnka

Hi,
I need some help with my court claim form (N1). My landlord has kept my £1000 deposit. The flat was spotless on leaving and i have several witnesses. They revealed to me that they had not used a deposit scheme. After 6 weeks i have yet to receive even £1. Their poor and invalid reasons for keeping it are another issue so i am focusing on the fact the deposit was not secured. A letter before action was sent with no response.

The daughter owns the flat but i have only ever spoken to and dealt with the parents. The daughters name is on the contract, deposit is paid into her bank account but i believe the contract address to be the parents as she doesnt live in london but they do.

My questions are:
Who should am i suing? All 3 or the daughter. I worry about getting my money back as she may be unemployed or not declaring the
rental income. The parents shouldnt get away with this blatant theft.

I should be entitled to £1000 plus 3 times that amount. What amount do i say i am claiming for? Is that for the court to decide and i should just put £1000?

They have caused alot of stress when moving due to the lack of £1000. Should i add anything else to the claim?

I have 2 addresses for the family. Should i fit both in the box?

I may owe 3 days rent, should i allow for this in the value claimed? They have been so spiteful it doesnt seem like they deserve it. It was mean to charge for 3 days anyway when there was nobody moving in for 2 weeks!

It was me and my boyfriend living there. Do i need to put both names on the form?

Thank you, i hope i havent made it too complicated.

Hippiest1

Hi to you.


The laws changed on 6th April this year regarding penalties for non compliance with the TDS. The financial penalty for non-compliance has been changed from three times the amount of the deposit to between one and three times the deposit to give the Courts more discretion as to the level of the financial penalty imposed for non-compliance

This applies if your Tenancy ended post 6th April this year, regardless of when it began.

Regarding the condition of the flat - if your landlord did not use a professional, independent Inventory Clerk. Then any other kind of Inventory (whether it was created by you or them) will not count as if made by either party it will (in the eyes of the law) be biased.
I say this from court experience (I used to be a lettings manager)

Regarding the issue of who you sue - that's tricky and I'd be inclined to go for all 3 as the parents clearly manage the property and therefore have a degree of culpability to ensure the daughter complies with the law. The law says that the LL must have his address/name clearly written at the top of the tenancy agreement.

You cannot adjust any claim for the 3 days rent that you owe. It may be unfair or "mean" in your eyes, but in the eyes of the law you owe that money and they would be perfectly entitled to claim interest in a counter claim against you. You cannot barter with your claim, it is a totally separate matter to the deposit.

Whether you claim for anything else has to be your decision, bearing in mind these things work both ways and by not paying the rent due, very roughly £100, owing for 6 weeks could cost you!

If she is not declaring the income, or worse still unemployed (bearing in mind those are just your thoughts and not facts) that is not your concern - the process you are beginning will bring that to light. There is a possibility that you may not get your money in a lump sum, but over a period of time.

List all the addresses you have for the family and make sure you have all the relevant documentation you will need if it does go to court.

Finally, was your boyfriend on the tenancy agreement? if not, he has no say (nor any culpability) If the LL was unaware of his being there, depending on the terms of your agreement, you could be in trouble.

rpc

Hippiest1 wrote: »

Regarding the condition of the flat - if your landlord did not use a professional, independent Inventory Clerk. Then any other kind of Inventory (whether it was created by you or them) will not count as if made by either party it will (in the eyes of the law) be biased.
I say this from court experience (I used to be a lettings manager)

Not true, as long as it is signed (and therefore agreed) by both parties. If the inventory was carried out by only one party, then it has little value.

However, as the deposit was not protected, the original deposit should be returned in full.

The law says that the LL must have his address/name clearly written at the top of the tenancy agreement.

Nope, the law says that the LL must provide an address for the serving of notices. It is perfectly acceptable to use an agent for this purpose. It does not have to be the LL own address (although the T is entitled to this if they ask for it).

Finally, was your boyfriend on the tenancy agreement? if not, he has no say (nor any culpability) If the LL was unaware of his being there, depending on the terms of your agreement, you could be in trouble.

Whether the LL knew is nothing at all to do with the deposit, but OP needs to make sure that only tenants are listed as claimants.

Fire_Fox

Welcome! It's worth running an advanced search, there have been a similar threads recently. Was your boyfriend a party to the tenancy, is he named on the AST? If the deposit is held in your name for your tenancy put your name alone on the form.

Unless you were formally advised the parents are the landlord's (daughter's) agents then their input is a red herring, you are contracted to the owner of the property, you paid the deposit to the owner and the owner is legally responsible for returning your money. I highly doubt you will get anywhere by claiming against the parents when you didn't pay the money to them and they do not own the flat. Use whichever of the addresses is the daughters, either do some detective work or put both down if you remain unsure. Download the land registry entry (long lease for the flat NOT the freehold of the building) and see if there is an address on that.

Worry about how you action the CCJ later, hopefully she will pay up to get you off her back. If not you can try to get an attachment of earnings (if she is employed), threaten to put a charge on the property, threaten bailiffs ... not sure if you can access other income streams such as the rental income but she can't exactly claim in court to be solely relying on benefits now can she?! :rotfl: You could always report her for benefit fraud or tax evasion if you felt vindictive.

If you didn't already you might try this version of the letter before action with all the evidence attached, it might be a little more sobering than what you already sent if a shortform. Do this anyway if you have only been communicating with the parents to date, you must be able to show in court that you have made reasonable attempts to contact and communicate with the landlord herself.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kROXpXTlONIJ:www.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/rtf_file/0010/437887/D._Tenancy_deposits_-_Letter_before_action_after_a_tenancy_has_ended.rtf+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
Try to step away from saying people are mean or thieves or spiteful, you won't do yourself any favours by being emotional or slanderous/ libellous.

Missnka

Hi, thank you for your responses. You have answered what i needed to know. I guess i claim for the £1000 minus 3 days rent plus interest and see what the court says about anything extra. That sound ok?

I have checked land registry and it is definitely the parents address on the contract. She doesnt seem to have one...

Last thing, should i be worried about being able to prove i gave 30 days notice in writing?they will deny receiving it and i cant prove it. (Didnt ever think it would turn nasty)

Thankyou

Fire_Fox

Forget about the three days rent, let the landlord counter claim if they want. It's impossible to answer your questions without knowing what has gone on so far.

- have you been formally notified the parents are the landlord's agents?
- what do you mean you have two addresses but only the parents on the contract?
- did you submit notice in writing to the landlord at the address on the AST that is specified as 'address at which to serve notices'?
- was your notice to quit correctly served coinciding with a rent period?
- has there been any communication to date from the landlord stating that you did not correctly serve notice?
- if yes what form did that take, written verbal email text message?

Missnka

Forget about the three days rent, let the landlord counter claim if they want. It's impossible to answer your questions without knowing what has gone on so far.

- have you been formally notified the parents are the landlord's agents? ***No but they are the only people i have dealt with. Land registry proves it is their address on contract. Rental contract has name of daughter. Address is not her own.

- what do you mean you have two addresses but only the parents on the contract? *** i was given a 2nd address by the building manager who has all flat owners contacts.

- did you submit notice in writing to the landlord at the address on the AST that is specified as 'address at which to serve notices'?*** yes but i kept no proof of posting because it was all very amicable at the time. I had no idea it would turn nasty when we moved out! Foolish iknow.

- was your notice to quit correctly served coinciding with a rent period? ***30 days before the end of the years contract, notice was given. I believe we would technically have been free to move after that year anyway because it was for one year only with option to renew.
- has there been any communication to date from the landlord stating that you did not correctly serve notice? ***nothing. I am just covering myself for any counter claim. It has not been brought up by either of us.
- if yes what form did that take, written verbal email text message?***none

I am also gathering witness statements to prove the flat was spotless on the day of vacation. Unfurnished so no inventory exists. No photos, it was so perfect i didnt think there would ever be a problem!

Thank you for your reply and your time

Fire_Fox

I wouldn't worry about them claiming you didn't serve notice at this point, they appear to have accepted you have legitimately gone and, as you say, you moved at the end of the fixed term.

You need to be communicating with your landlord from now on, NOT the parents because they are not even official agents. There is always the chance she will claim that she is estranged from her parents and had no idea they had been in contact with you all these months. IMO use both addresses you have but address all letters to the landlord not the parents. Send the daughter the Shelter letter before action with attached documentation as you are preparing now.

No inventory/ statement of condition is very much to your advantage. They sound like rank amateurs! IMO the building manager should not have given you that address under data protection but it is to your advantage they did so! Might scare your landlord a little to receive a letter before action at an address she doesn't think you have.

Missnka

Thank you so much everyone. I will let you know how i get on. At this point, i think i will claim for the £1000 minus 3 days rent of £100 by my calculations. I will send to both addresses, put myself and boyfriend on the form and keep the claim to just the daughter. I will also add 8% interest for the 6 weeks the deposit has been withheld and hope the courts will be generous in their punishment for not using the scheme! And also for the fact that no effort has been made to contact me and return any portion of the deposit back. Thanks again

Kynthia

Missnka wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone. I will let you know how i get on. At this point, i think i will claim for the £1000 minus 3 days rent of £100 by my calculations. I will send to both addresses, put myself and boyfriend on the form and keep the claim to just the daughter. I will also add 8% interest for the 6 weeks the deposit has been withheld and hope the courts will be generous in their punishment for not using the scheme! And also for the fact that no effort has been made to contact me and return any portion of the deposit back. Thanks again

Don't deduct the three days rent, you are muddying the waters by mixing the issues. You are entitiled to the return of your deposit money as it wasn't protected and you dispute any charges. Let them counter claim for rent if they wish.

princeofpounds

It's actually a bit of a myth that agents can't be sued over deposit non-protection, as the below link describes (I'm sure there are better sources but am on a mobile and it's first I found.)

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?16679-L-s-Agent-may-be-sued-for-non-protection-of-T-s-deposit

So I would consider suing all three. They are the landlord's agents by virtue of acting on behalf of the landlord. It requires no formal appointment. You will just need to demonstrate that they represented the landlord, especially with regard to taking an protecting the deposit.

Add court fees to your claim.

The three days rent; there is no 'part-month' when you pay rent in advance under law. A monthly payment is not divisible, so if you stay one day, you are liable for the whole month. That's a legal principle over the nature of the payment - it was decided many moons ago (after all, should you get refunds for the minutes/seconds/hours you were not in occupation?!). So let them counter claim.