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Retired people could work for pensions..
Comments
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What a great well thought out response, with plenty of evidence base and thought on policy. Well done. Go give yourself a tea cake.
Well answer the point then. How does NHS expenditure come into it ? What has that got to do with pensions and housing ? Do you think that only older people benefit from state-funded health care ? And even if you do, the hated Baby Boomers were not old through all of that period were they. Is not increased sophistication and development in health care worth paying for ahead of most other things ? Do you believe that older people should now deny themselves, or be deprived of, adequate healthcare so that there is more money available to subsidise the lifestyle of the young ? Putting up a long rambling post together with a chart that is not directly relevant to the discussion in hand, and then making sarcastic snipes at someone who calls it out does not make you the clever clogs that you like to think you are.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
Is there really any point in continuing any kind of discussion with someone like this?
Not really, he is a wind up merchant with a massive chip on his shoulder, and a grossly inflated view of his own ability to conduct a reasoned discussion, sticking to the relevant points and properly addressing the arguments put up by his adversaries.
However, since we more mature types are not in fact selfish, greedy, and narcissistic towards the younger generation as some make us out to be, it would be churlish to withdraw completely from this farcical thread and to deprive him of the stimulation, wouldn't it.
No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
All the actual facts show that labour inherited a deficit, turned it into a surplus for a few years and then back into a deficit.
By 2007 (just before the world financial meltdown) the government debt (% of GDP) was about the same as they inherited in 1997.
The subsequent rise in the debt was due to the world financial crisis which of course is still growing under the coalition.
No it wasnt.ou expain how banking affects government expenditure? It was down to consumer spending being brought forward by labour, giving the appearance that we were wealthy, but when you stripped the impact of government expenditure out of GDP you quickly realise that this government expenditure was propping up growth, and had been since 2005. How was this paid for? Laissez faire attitudes to prole debt (IO Mortgages, credit cards, payday loans etc) and allowing consumer expenditure to go unchecked, same with house prices, which should have prompted controls by the government controlled puppet FSA into maximum mortgage lending. But they didnt. As long as increasing sums in stamp duty and VAT were coming in as a result of credit card binging and growing house prices, they were happy. Those that voted labour in through the benefits great cash giveaway would continue to breed and thrive.
If we hadnt grown private debt to over 1.4 trillion in under 7 years, then the banking crisis would not have had the effect it did in the UK.
The problems emerged when all those sources of taxation stopped overnight, with the collapse of northern rock and latterly Lehmans. It was only then the results of labour mismanagement became aparent, that the men in the city werent miracle workers and without the public getting into increasing levels of debt, the house of cards would fall.
Labour like to pretend it was all the bankers fault. Yet they were in power and controlled the FSA for over 12 years. Lets not forget that shall we?
As for labour turning the corner ref the economy in 1997, the conservatives would have done the same if they had won the election, having made the difficult policy choices that saw record low levels of UK inflation for nigh on 2 decades.0 -
Jennifer_Jane wrote: »But what if nobody wants my skills, and what if the advice which I hand out is incorrect, let alone unwanted. Am I to be punished for not being wanted in the workplace?
I would be interested in how you would persuade the electorate on this new scheme. How would you sell it? Which party do you think could bring it in?
Frankly, since the State Pension is already taxed, and we have anyway all paid into it (some like myself with extra contributions for years, often from abroad), I cannot see this being an election-winner.
I get 62% of the State Pension, in fact, most people of my age get very different levels of State Pension, as well as the State 2nd Pension, or SERPS, the Guaranteed bit, and all the other bits and pieces. So how would that all work in practice.
If you are going to ask me to have to work, then I think that I would like all my years of contributions back, as well as the tax I've paid on the three years I've received the State Pension, and, of course, the two years I forfeited entirely in order to try to get a small increase on my weekly amount.
Because I only paid in so that I would NOT have to work.
Oh but then, that's it, you are actually asking for the State Pension to be stopped. There would be no point in it.
Sounds Victorian without the charity.
I suppose I could ask for the 12 years of contributions back on my public sector pension that was cut in X factor abatement, but I would be laughed at.
The fact is, the state would be better off giving you back all your NI contributions and giving you no state pension, because depending on your age, on average you will take out far more than you ever put in. Thats my whole point.0 -
The surplus would have been there those years after the 1997 GE anyhow, to suggest anything else is false. The raving loony party could have been elected in 1997 after the difficult policy decisions the tories had taken and run a surplus for christs sake!
The surplus the Labour party was a pittance in comparison to the deficit we were left with in 2008 anyhow.0 -
I suppose an attitude is only facist then when the cutbacks affect you and not other people?Er––many of today's pensioners did not have the chance to go to university, yet worked very hard right starting from the most menial jobs in firms, then working their way up.
While I am here, those pensioners (many) who didn't have children, still paid for the upbringing of others' children, probably including people like this Paul who keeps posting what frequently amount to facist remarks on this thread. What he omits to say is that the massive rise in house prices that has distorted the economy and created so many problems in a variety of ways was not caused by any baby boomers. It really happened during the last fifteen years, so probably during the time when he was an adult.
I find his attitude disgusting, and thank goodness all younger people are not like this. People can post whatever they like about themselves on an Internet forum (other posters cannot check the information they provide), so I don't actually know who he is or what his background is. However, one wonders what his relationship is with his own grandparents and parents? Must be truly horrific for someone to develop such attitudes.
Is there really any point in continuing any kind of discussion with someone like this?
I have no issue with grafters, I think I have made my point on this. Neither have I an issue with spending oodles of state cash on education and children, they are the future of the country after all. I would like to see significant cuts to DWP budget/NHS budget and the cash piled in to doubling the education budget, especially at college level and for funding apprentiships in vocational skills for example. As for house prices, I was posting on here back in 2005 stating it would all end in tears due to excessive growth rates in public and private debt. Who is to blame is a moot point. I dont really see too many boomers complaining about record low rates on tiny mortgages, or the tripling in prices over the past 15 years. 15 years ago I was 17 by the way, so not much chance to benefit from booming house prices. What I do see is lots of not in my back yard objection on here and on the daily mail, objecting to further property development, including development on the green belt. I wonder why? I dont remember the same objections holding clout during the new town development that took place decades ago. Or are some generations concerned what a correction in the supply/demand issue of housing would do to their asset values?0 -
Frankly Paul - you are talking a load of rollocks & bollards!
Does all that you state should apply to us apply also to you? Should we deduct all that the state has contributed to your training/career (and your 12 hours shifts, paid at a rate which attracts 40% tax) plus of course your health care/education........0 -
Make your mind up Paul - are we Facists or Communists?????0
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Frankly Paul - you are talking a load of rollocks & bollards!
Does all that you state should apply to us apply also to you? Should we deduct all that the state has contributed to your training/career (and your 12 hours shifts, paid at a rate which attracts 40% tax) plus of course your health care/education........
12 hour shifts? I just finished a 24 hour shift thanks.
Again, yet another exceptionally well thought out post, with extensive detail in how my assertions are incorrect.
It already is affecting my generation. With future revisions of state pension age to maintain affordability (having already postulated possible decreases in longetivity will not cause a policy reversal), quite frankly, I would be much better off if a policy like I have suggested was brought into effect. I plan to assist the local community anyway (as I already do) so makes very little difference to me.
Hear you go. For all you little tony blair/brownite groupies out there.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1489693/Some-spending-ratios-comparable-with-Cold-War-communist-states.html
What a fantastic way to run a country. cant see what the hell was going to go wrong, could you?Treasury public spending figures show how large areas of the country, especially in the North, have become increasingly dependent on the state.
A recent assessment conducted by the Centre for Economics and Business Research showed that in the North-East of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, government spending accounts for more than half of their economies and, in some cases, nearly 60 per cent.
The North-East is the highest, with nearly 59 per cent of GDP, followed by Wales on 58.6 per cent and Scotland at 52 per cent. The CEBR said these proportions were comparable with the state spending of communist countries in the Cold War era. Today, only some Scandinavian countries have anything like the same support.0
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