Declaration of Trust

Meadows

steeeb wrote: »

propertyman is exactly correct. The reason why we are doing it is mainly for financial reasons - so that we don't have to rent somewhere and have "dead money". We also end up in a house that we are happy to be our forever home if we get to that stage.
But I have to protect my "investment" and the 99/1% split is the way I see of doing that. Her being on the mortgage isn't an issue for me, she's on it as a gesture of goodwill and my intent to commit this to be our future home in the future.
If it doesn't work out then she can't run off with 50% of the house or whatever.

Well I hope it does become your forever home and I hope she realises how considerate your are being with this (and the fact she will not have to work and only part time if she wants to). With your 'trying' to make this right and by also offering here 1% of something she is paying nothing into and saying if she went she could have 50% then she should seriously stop doubting that you are doing anything untoward.
The only thing she really needs to check with a solicitor is - is she 1% or 50% liable if the mortgage is not met? How does this show on the mortgage? Does she show as joint name or does he mortgage lender register her as partial owner?

I think the best thing she can do is seek legal advise so she knows exactly where she stands and what commitments she has if the property was to be sold or the partnership was to break down.


Just one little thing though you say "We also end up in a house that we are happy to be our forever home if we get to that stage", should you not be at that stage now if you are committing to living together? Yes no one knows what the future holds but if we did not think we were at that stage with 'THE ONE' then why move in together!

I wish you both well

kingstreet

Simply having her named on the mortgage and the deeds is going to create all kinds of problems if you do split up.

You'll have covered your bases with entitlements, yes, but you'll still have the aggravation of needing her agreement to remortgage, sell etc.

There are any number of threads on this and the M&E board which basically concern split-ups with joint homes and mortgages asking what they can do to sever the tie with their former partner.

You should also remember, the mortgage is a joint and several liability. Your partner is accepting 1% of the equity in return for 100% of the liability for the mortgage, as the lender will come after her for payment if you are unable to meet the obligation. Would she see that as "fair?"

I believe you should purchase the property in your sole name, with a sole mortgage.

propertyman

Thank you for the "thanks".

The key that you perhaps haven't got yet is that tonight, it's you vs them.

In the you corner
you will be on objective ground leading to emotional* , think first feel second

In the them corner
it will be on emotional ground to financial ground*- feel first think second, (and when a woman gets thinking, few men can keep up!)

Pretty much the whole saga of man and wife in a nutshell really

PS Oh and that as soon as you get near a reasoned decision, the rules will change....

PPS post 21 is an excellent example of this

So if you want to resolve this you have to alter your thinking

But as for the discussion don't what ever you do decide today- this is the chance to really explore your relationship and what you both think and want, not just "about a house".

Time to talk about hopes fears and dreams for both of you. Start there. :smileyhea

* e.g. 1% is that all I am worth too you? You think you can put a price on me blub blub, oh yeah ok 10%. Oh boy am I going to get hate mail about this...!

rpc

She doesn't want legal advice, but does want her mum to fight her battles? To me, it does not sound like she is mature enough to make this sort of committment. That isn't a reflection on the arrangement, it is my view of how she choses to work out differences between the two of you.

How long will her mum intervene in your relationship?

If you both believe in marriage, then IMHO it would be totally reasonable for the house to be in your sole name at the moment. When you are married then you can transfer (free from SDLT) into joint names.

I do not like the idea of 99/1 ownership for reasons others (particularly Richard) have covered. I do like the idea of testing out living together before taking on a joint mortgage. In this scenario, I would say that your options are either rent or single ownership. That you are going down the 99/1 route is a massive concession and she should see it as that.

She wants the right to own something she pays nothing towards as an equal partner? Hmm...

propertyman

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Renting is not dead money, please do some research into the property market. If you had purchased any time since 2007 you would have LOST tens of thousands of pounds in equity plus costs of buying and selling.

But only if you had to sell. Homes lost value in 91-93, 88, 74-81, (before then I was at school and only thought out about sweets and later, girls) but are now worth a whole lot more today, in the midst of a "deprecession", than back then.

Rent is always going to someone else.Like me mwah ha ha.:rotfl:

steeeb

Thanks very much for all your reponses.

I take on board everyones comments about 'maturity' and regarding her mother 'fighting her battles'. At the end of the day - buying this property is an alternative to renting. I see it as a buyers market and we'd not only be saving vs renting - but we'd also be in a secure home we (or one of us, whatever) owns, rather than then having to go through the buying process if for example a baby was on the way or whatever. Is it a way of getting onto the property ladder which we might not be able to in the future by renting etc..

I'll see how tonight goes anyway.

Mojisola

If this was my son and his about-to-be live-in GF wanted half of all the equity he had saved up and half the house and had no plans to contribute financially to the household in the near future, I'd be hoping he would see sense and not go ahead with his plans.

GDB2222

steeeb wrote: »

Thanks very much for all your reponses.

I take on board everyones comments about 'maturity' and regarding her mother 'fighting her battles'. At the end of the day - buying this property is an alternative to renting. I see it as a buyers market and we'd not only be saving vs renting - but we'd also be in a secure home we (or one of us, whatever) owns, rather than then having to go through the buying process if for example a baby was on the way or whatever. Is it a way of getting onto the property ladder which we might not be able to in the future by renting etc..

I'll see how tonight goes anyway.

I don't think that anyone is seriously suggesting that you should not buy the house, but almost everyone is saying that you should leave her out of it. When you move in, she should pay for half the groceries, half the services, half the holidays, etc. But you should pay 100% of the deposit, 100% of the mortgage payments, and own the place 100%.

In fact, and this is the key point for this evening's "discussion", you have been thinking it over and it would be TOTALLY UNFAIR TO HER TO ALLOW HER TO TAKE ON RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MORTGAGE. You want to protect her from this liability, as after all she won't be working, she could go bankrupt over it of something happened to you, far better to ring-fence the liability etc.

I think you need to limit the discussion to 20 minutes. Tell them you will listen to what mother has to say, then decide another day. 20 minutes is long enough for her to have her say, as long as you don't answer back.

If you do answer back, you need to play the "why don't you trust me card". If possible, see if you can burst into tears before her.

I think this 1% idea is sheer lunacy. All the aggravation of having someone else owning the property alongside you, and as you will find out this evening none of the advantages.

Bonne chance, mon ami! You're going to need it.


By the way, if it's any help, when my wife-to-be and I got together, she moved into a home that I owned. If she had asked to be given a share of the house as a condition of moving in, I'd have thought that really, really mercenary and decidedly unromantic. A few years after we'd married we moved house, and the new place was registered in both names. It seems to have worked, as we've been together 35 years.

Richard_Webster

By the way, if it's any help, when my wife-to-be and I got together, she moved into a home that I owned. If she had asked to be given a share of the house as a condition of moving in, I'd have thought that really, really mercenary and decidedly unromantic. A few years after we'd married we moved house, and the new place was registered in both names. It seems to have worked, as we've been together 35 years.

It isn't legal advice but as GDB2222 has indicated it is more about the nature of your relationship and that's what you need to think through - and she does too.

xylophone

If I were you, I would buy the property in my own name.

If I were your girlfriend, I would keep my job, live at home and wait to see whether you were committed enough to offer marriage and I committed enough to accept....