should colleagues with kids get preference for holidays?

coolcait

Fire_Fox wrote: »

There are plenty of non school weeks in a year so plenty of opportunities for parents and children to holiday together without taking time off school. Nobody is forced to breed, few parents are forced to take a foreign holiday in the summer months, few need to take two or three consecutive weeks every year either. The choice is not often between a summer holiday or taking the child out of school, it's between a summer or an Easter or half term vacation.

Whoever puts their request in first should get priority, often parents are more organised anyway! If everyone puts their name forward at the same time names should be drawn or arrangements made between the staff. Plenty of child free people have legitimate reasons for wanting time off at particular times of year, they might want to attend festivals or weddings, have friends or relatives that can only take decent vacations in the summer (such as people working in education!) or have a particular holiday experience in mind.

Not even special treatment around Christmas, not being able to take days off then can easily mean people who cannot drive (plenty of the child free, especially youngsters) are unable to spend the holidays with their loved ones at all. As long as a parent can spend Xmas day with their child then they don't need to see aunts or grandparents any more or less than anyone who doesn't have children.

I had two weddings this year at potentially desirable holiday times - my sibling and my best friend - I'd have been devastated to miss either simply because I happen to have chosen to remain child free. And last time I had a foreign holiday it was in the summer, I flew out to meet my parents in South America so that we could experience a particular part of their trip together.

If we want equality in the workplace then we want equality we can't pick and choose when it is applied, employers are not permitted to be sexist or sack women for being pregnant but then parents get to cherry pick annual leave. Having said that if a child is sick I would usually be happy for a parent to get priority, that cannot be planned for or changed. Ditto for specific school events that the parent has no say over like plays.

^^ This.

Paticularly the bit I've put in bold (also mentioned by Patty, in post #23)

We had a similar discussion on here a couple of weeks ago (by my memory - it may have been a couple of months in real time!)

I think the BIB is the crux of the matter.

(cait, in the workforce, mother of more than one, typical 'working mum' childcare issues)

Torry_Quine

hardpressed wrote: »

I think the fairest way is for each person in turn to pick a week, when everyone's had their first pick go round again. When I was at work we consulted each other before we booked our holiday then a new person started and she cam in one morning and without talking to anyone about it booked all her year's holiday and refused to change and of the dates althought she hadn't booked to go away, Most unfair. I don't see why people with children should have first choice, they knew when they had children that sacrifices would have to be made.

I mainly agree with you here. Just to say though that if you only allow one week chosen at a time then you won't in all likelihood have two weeks holiday for your main holiday. Surely she was correct in booking the time off before booking to go away.

DueMarch11

It really should be about give and take, I work evenings in a pub and have requested not to work Xmas eve, Xmas day & Boxing Day as I have 2 young children and don't think it's fair to them if we have to cut the time together short because I have to dash off to work. I have however offered to work the full shift on Nye because there are others who work there that are childless and want to go out and have a good time which is fair enough. My partner and I wouldn't be doing anything and the kids will be in bed so it won't make any difference to them. I'm lucky to have an understanding boss, helps I'm the only one with small children too I guess

GlasweJen

Everyone else at work has kids and much as we would like children I can't have any.

Does my lack of child bearing ability mean I should not have a July/ August holiday and I should work the whole Christmas and new year period every year until I retire?

DevilsAdvocate1

F_Bear wrote: »

not a big fan of this method, all our date requests have to be in by end oct so everyone has a chance to get there dates in.

first come, first served isnt viable. people would just book further and further in advance, then agrue who booked first!



most people wouldnt but its about choice, is it right that your holiday choices are reduced if you dont have kids?

But your holiday choices ARE reduced if you do have kids!

coolcait

DevilsAdvocate1 wrote: »

But your holiday choices ARE reduced if you do have kids!

And if you work in/with schools in any capacity.

Or your partner does.

Or if you want to spend time with children in your extended family during your holidays.

Or any of the other, similar, points which have been made throughout this thread.

In my extended family, there is a child free by choice cousin who likes her nieces and nephews; she tries to have time off in the school holidays to spend time with them. Which helps their parents on the childcare front (someone else on the thread already made this point - albeit not about my cousin! )

Another cousin lives with her elderly dad, and cares for him when she's not working. Her brother and his wife have dad to stay during some the school holidays (they're both teachers), and that's the only opportunity she has to have a holiday. Again, a scenario which has been alluded to on this thread.

Why should either of my cousins have to give a detailed explanation of their private lives and choices, in order to get time off during school holidays?

As for Christmas, if you're going to give priority for leave, it should be based on distance from 'core family'. IMO.

So, a single person whose core family lives miles away would be allowed time off, because otherwise it would be difficult/impossible for them to have a family Christmas.

The parent of children, who, as a family, live close to the office, would be expected to work, as they could still be with their family during Christmas.

And I've put that argument forward in real life - as the mum of under-fives at the time - when a manager came out with the line 'Of course, people with children won't be expected to work'

wondercollie

My union spells out clearly that seniority is the deciding factor. I'm senior to FOUR nurses on my unit, yet they feel their needs beat mine. Guess who has been dumped with Dec 24, 25 day shift? Nightshift Dec 27 - Jan 1 (finish on Jan2)? Yup yours truly. Did I mention my children are 18 and 21? I haven't had a New Years Eve off in the last four years? I've worked 5 out of the last 7 Christmas Days?

I've done December 25 evening shift when the husband was in Afghanistan because "your kids are older". What? They are home alone on Christmas and that's OK?

One of the ones that keeps whining the loudest her children are older than mine but away at university. Their choice, we have great universities here.

I swear if it happens again, I'm grieving it. I haven't had summer holidays since 2009 (and that year I got an entire 4 hours). I'm tired of being "nice" and giving up summer time and easter for those with young children. I'm tired of being expected to take November, January or February as my holiday time. I'd like to sit my back garden when it's warm and sunny not shovel the snow in my driveway for holdiay relaxation.

End of rant.

mysk_girl

I have kids (currently on mat leave waiting for no.3 to arrive) and will be returning to work next September. I would in no way expect priority for booking holidays, especially as both my colleagues (big company but these are only 2 I have to coordinate holiday with) are married to teachers. OH works for himself which makes things easier! Luckily the office is closed between Christmas and new year which makes life a lot easier, but I've tentativly raised the idea of term time working but have been refused due to this exact issue. I knew it probably would be, and in no way am annoyed, but you don't ask, you don't get! Summer is more of an issue as this is our silly season as well, but we manage by being nice and considerate of each other!

sazzybum

I'm lucky as my team are all young guys with no family, but they DO like to go out 'festivising' (yeah I made that word up..:D

I don't have a young family anymore, both boys are in the army and when they come home at Xmas, I like to have a day or two with them..so I get a couple of days, and my team get a couple of days each as well-so everyone's happy.

However, other teams aren't so lucky-we even had one girl go to HR and DEMAND 6 weeks off in the summer as she didn't have childcare, she was going to take 'em to court etc etc, saying it was her 'right' as a mother and all that guff. It's these sort of people who cause ill feeling amongst colleagues.

I don't agree with anyone getting priority at all-if it comes to it- names in a hat, and draw them out, first name out-gets it. Simple as that.

FBaby

I work in a team of 5. 3 have school age children, one a toddler and one has no children. The two without school age children usually favour holidays outside of school children's holidays but it happens that they too want time offering that time for the reasons stated already. We have always managed to works things out. Those with school age children don't take all school holidays and there 6 weeks in the summer so some flexibility. my issue is that planning holidays is a marathon as dependent on my partner AND ex. So first come first serve basis is not in my favour compared to someone who can book all their holiday a week in advance but so far there has never be a big clash.