should colleagues with kids get preference for holidays?

persa

nickj wrote: »

i can't think why anyone in their right mind would want to go on holiday when the kids are off school, not only do you have crowds everywhere but you're paying a premium price for school holiday time breaks ,

Doesn't matter what time of the year I take annual leave, I never 'go on holiday'. I'm always in the UK seeing friends and family, I can't afford to jet off somewhere exotic. The cost of package holidays in the sun therefore has no impact on when I want to use my leave.

For me, I'm at an age where there is a seemingly endless number of weddings going on up and down the country, so if I have the annual leave available, it's nice to take a bit of time out and travel to and from the (without fail) inconveniently located venue without feeling like I'm rushing. Summer holidays are popular because the weather is good - blame the bride and groom for the date, not me!

It's also nice having time to visit relatives, including the school age ones.

Trust me, childless folk do have their reasons for wanting time off during the school holidays. Whilst a lot of people seem happy to discuss this on MSE, I think it would get their backs up if forced to justify the time off in the context of their workplace. It's one thing choosing to share details of private stuff with co-workers, it's another being forced to.

There has to be a system in place that is not only fair, but perceived to be fair - that way when management decides who gets to be off when, there's no challenge from the employees. Sometimes the reason for taking leave will be very private indeed (e.g. family illness) and the person putting in the request will not want this discussed.

Tupperware_Queen

When I was in charge of rotas and authorising holidays I made sure I kept records for who had had what holiday/worked 'special' shifts for previous years. I then tried to be fair, and if there was a clash I offered things like starting leave halfway through the week, so people could do midweek flights. I always let people know that although I would try to accomodate everyone, sometimes I had to make tough decisions.

Fairness and transparency are the only way to go with this

FATBALLZ

I wouldn't go as far as saying it should be enforced that anybody gets priority for a particular holiday, but if anybody has an especially good reason for needing a certain week off (most commonly because of young children, but there can be other reasons), it would be better if people could be reasonable and work it out between them so that nobody loses out too much.

Non-parents depend on others having children in order to be able to retire in their old age, so they can't just wash their hands of making reasonable adjustments for people who do have children, it's in all our interests to raise the next generation in a half decent manner.

I suspect most of the friction in this situation comes from the usual minority of serial !!!!-taking parents and militant child-hating non-parents.

persa

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Non-parents depend on others having children in order to be able to retire in their old age, so they can't just wash their hands of making reasonable adjustments for people who do have children, it's in all our interests to raise the next generation in a half decent manner.

I suspect most of the friction in this situation comes from the usual minority of serial !!!!-taking parents and militant child-hating non-parents.

I don't understand how having a family holiday abroad every year at the same time of year is essential "to raise the next generation in a half decent manner".

I would quite happily cancel my leave (assuming I could, and hadn't already booked anything) for a co-worker with caring responsibilities who needed that same time off to look after their dependent(s). For example, if childcare fell through, or a relative's condition showed signs of deteriorating.

I wouldn't however cancel my holiday so someone with children could have a holiday instead - first come, first serve applies in that circumstance.

As I said previously, there's a different between people needing time off and wanting time off. If anyone needs time off, the team should pitch in as far as possible, if they want the time off, sorry, should have got your request in first.

Fire_Fox

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Non-parents depend on others having children in order to be able to retire in their old age, so they can't just wash their hands of making reasonable adjustments for people who do have children, it's in all our interests to raise the next generation in a half decent manner.

I suspect most of the friction in this situation comes from the usual minority of serial !!!!-taking parents and militant child-hating non-parents.

That old chestnut! :rotfl: Plenty of people retire without needing to rely on the state pension, whether they inherit or save or sell the family home to release the equity. How many UK parents honestly breed selflessly in order to pay the pensions and care homes for the older generation, and to ensure the continuity of the species?

I could certainly be deemed a militant child-disliking non-parent, but it's far too black and white to dismiss my views as solely being down to that. I support equality in all its forms, as do most people posting on this thread. There have been very few posts - on either side of the debate - in this thread that have been me me me.

I am part of a close knit family just as much as someone with young children: I have parents, a sibling who is newly married, a child free by choice aunt in her seventies, at some point nieces or nephews for whom I will be the only aunt/ uncle (poor brats ). And of course I have friends who are as dear to me as family. I am not a two dimensional character who ceases to be when I leave work, I am a human being with social needs.

It is not a progressive society or community to only value those who are able to or choose to breed, we are not farm animals! There are plenty of child free people who are incredibly loving and giving, who have a career that makes a huge difference or voluntary work. Others of us are selfish and greedy: ditto parents. Most people have acknowledged the need to make reasonable adjustments, but that should not be a one way street. If school holidays are fifteen weeks a year it is more than possible for most working parents to be flexible.

starrybee

Most people who don't have kids would probably choose to take their holiday at another time anyway, unless they have another reason not to, which you may not even know about.
For example, their partner could be a school teacher? In which case why is it fair that they should be second choice just because they don't have children of their own?
First come, first served in my opinion.

SandC

I'm happy taking my main holiday outside of school hols in the summer but I had my big two week hol last year over easter and would like to continue to do so.

There are industries aside from schools where the holidays are allocated and there is no flexibility. For instance the car industry, employers such as Toyota, Honda etc. all have shutdowns the first two weeks in August and because of this a lot of their suppliers (who can employ thousands on each site) follow suit. It's good if your workplace is flexible but your partner's might not be.

sassyblue

KiKi wrote: »

ACAS can't help.

ACAS can act as an intermediary between employers and employees and it's free. There's no way l would have put up with that decision so the posters hubby should have complained.

verysillyguy06

Fire_Fox wrote: »

That old chestnut! :rotfl: Plenty of people retire without needing to rely on the state pension, whether they inherit or save or sell the family home to release the equity. How many UK parents honestly breed selflessly in order to pay the pensions and care homes for the older generation, and to ensure the continuity of the species?

I could certainly be deemed a militant child-disliking non-parent, but it's far too black and white to dismiss my views as solely being down to that. I support equality in all its forms, as do most people posting on this thread. There have been very few posts - on either side of the debate - in this thread that have been me me me.

I am part of a close knit family just as much as someone with young children: I have parents, a sibling who is newly married, a child free by choice aunt in her seventies, at some point nieces or nephews for whom I will be the only aunt/ uncle (poor brats ). And of course I have friends who are as dear to me as family. I am not a two dimensional character who ceases to be when I leave work, I am a human being with social needs.

It is not a progressive society or community to only value those who are able to or choose to breed, we are not farm animals! There are plenty of child free people who are incredibly loving and giving, who have a career that makes a huge difference or voluntary work. Others of us are selfish and greedy: ditto parents. Most people have acknowledged the need to make reasonable adjustments, but that should not be a one way street. If school holidays are fifteen weeks a year it is more than possible for most working parents to be flexible.

Yes and no....schools are becoming stricter and stricter regarding taking time off out of the holidays and with the society it is at the moment, holidays in the holidays are just too expensive but that still means that parents have to find holidays day care which again is expensive. Some parents could not afford to work if they could not have holidays at least part of the time in the holidays.

I have always been in situation where I was the only one with children and my colleagues, mostly young and single were the most ignorant lot when it came to understand my situation.

Me going home to care for my children when OH was ill has been compared with as important as someone missing their hair appointment in order to arrange times for meetings

:mad:

I have found non-parent much more militant then the other way around

Bluemeanie_2

I'm generally happy not to take holidays when the kids are off school. I don't want my holidays ruined by other people lol so prefer quieter times. However I still maintain the stance it should be first come first served end of.
Nothing to do with any old chesnut about bringing up the future generation blah blah. You know you want the time off so book it!