Recurring charges that aren't direct debit/standing order

Jinks

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask this so if it isn't I'm happy for it to be moved.

I recently had a problem in which I tried to cancel a yearly charge for a website package I had. The company told me it was cancelled but the next month my bank account was charged £50 anyway. I emailed them and told them this and requested a refund but they said I had never confirmed the cancellation and that I could call them to cancel it again and it wouldn't be re-charged next year but that I wouldn't be refunded the £50 because they had no record of my cancellation. The reason I cancelled it in the first place was because it was too expensive so I'm angry about this.

I looked in my online bank account but there was nothing under direct debits so I want to know under what system they are entitled to make recurring charges and what to do about it. There is another unrelated thing I will probably be re-charged for in the new year that I thought was a direct debit that I could cancel in my bank account but isn't listed there either.

I don't like the idea of having to contact the companies directly to cancel things because they often try to talk you out of cancelling or as above it mysteriously "doesn't work" and they charge you anyway.

Am I entitled to cancel these myself at my bank and how do I avoid these kind of recurring payments in the future? I don't mind direct debits because they are under my direct control through online banking but I'm now paranoid about giving out my card details to anyone in case it's one of these "invisible recurring payments".

dalesrider

Yes you can now cancel with your bank.
Ask for the disputes department to get it logged. This won't stop them for debiting. But will allow you get get a refund.

If you cancelled prior to them taking the payment this year. Then call you bank and get it chargedback as a cancelled CPA. Easy to do, requires no paperwork. Only you to provide the date you told the co.
You will also get the money refunded straight back to your account. PSD...
If they say they wont refund. Remind them of PSD and lodge a complaint.

The reason they can take them, is that when you signup to their service they will have stated in the T/C that they will renew each year unless you cancel with them.
Which is why you should always read and digest T/C and check for emails near time of renewall.

Buzby

You've given them your Debit Card number, and the trouble with this is, recurring payments are very hard to dispute, especially if you've paid this way before. The bank will say you authorised it and ask you to prove cancellation.

When you called to do this, do you know when and the date? Who you spoke with, and any reference number to confirm your request? Or did you record the call? If the answer is yes to any of these - you've got the tools to get your money back. But if not, it is going to be an uphill struggle!

pvt

Jinks wrote: »

I don't like the idea of having to contact the companies directly to cancel things because they often try to talk you out of cancelling or as above it mysteriously "doesn't work" and they charge you anyway.

Jinks,

This is appalling! If you want to cancel a contract of any kind, of course you have to contact the company concerned. You can't just decide to stop paying their bills by telling your bank to cancel the DD.

We all know companies don't like losing business, but grow a spine and just say NO if they try to persuade you not to cancel. It's your money, you don't have to justify your decision to them, just tell them that.

If you don't notify the companies concerned, as per the Ts & Cs you signed up to, then you're open to being pursued for the money you owe through the civil courts. And quite rightly so.

dalesrider

pvt wrote: »

Jinks,

This is appalling! If you want to cancel a contract of any kind, of course you have to contact the company concerned. You can't just decide to stop paying their bills by telling your bank to cancel the DD.

If you don't notify the companies concerned, as per the Ts & Cs you signed up to, then you're open to being pursued for the money you owe through the civil courts. And quite rightly so.

Well as this is not a DD.... Its a CPA
The EU/FSA/FOS do think its OK. To simply contact your bank/card provider and do just this.....
Strange but they also think the same on DD's.

Seems that any T/C as far as they are concerned are worthless.... Including ones where you have borrowed money and can't be bothered to pay it back.

It would be good of these companies actually took a few people to court on this to test the water and see where it went.

People then wonder why they then get debited after they have told the bank.
Well the only people who can stop the debits are the company who take them.

We are trying to work on a way to stop the companies from debiting. As FOS seem to think we should. Believe me it is not a easy task.....
Would have been far easier if they had taken this issue to visa/mastercard at the start and told them waht they wanted to do. They could then have reworked their systems or abolished CPA's altogether.

Of course common sense say tell the company. Given the internet and email.... You don't actually have to talk to them...:T

Gromitt

pvt wrote: »

We all know companies don't like losing business, but grow a spine and just say NO if they try to persuade you not to cancel. It's your money, you don't have to justify your decision to them, just tell them that.

Sometimes it works in your favor. I rang up to cancel my internet a few months back, giving them 30 days notice prior to the date I wanted to cancel. They persuaded me not to cancel by matching the price of the company I was going to move to, so it saved the hassle of switching.

I also know someone who got £10/month knocked off their Virgin Media bill by asking to cancel (Sure, it was only for 12 months, but just diarise and switch, like you do with savings accounts).

If we had cancelled by just telling the bank "Don't give these companies any more money", we would have actually been worse off!

pvt

dalesrider wrote: »

Well as this is not a DD.... Its a CPA

I was referring to the specific comment the OP made and which I quoted in my post. But same principle applies to both anyway.

dalesrider wrote: »

The EU/FSA/FOS do think its OK. To simply contact your bank/card provider and do just this.....
Strange but they also think the same on DD's.

That's not my interpretation. They may well say the payee has the right to terminate an arrangement (and quite right too), but they and banks nearly always warn that you should also cancel subscriptions with the provider as you may be contractually obliged to pay them anyway.

dalesrider wrote: »

It would be good of these companies actually took a few people to court on this to test the water and see where it went.

We know exactly what would happen if a company took someone to court for breaching a contract and failing to pay them for a service provided - the company would almost certainly win!

dalesrider wrote: »

Well the only people who can stop the debits are the company who take them.

However the bank will recover the payment on your behalf if it's either a CPA or DD that you have explicitly told them not to pay - which is what the OP was suggesting one do.

dalesrider

pvt wrote: »

That's not my interpretation. They may well say the payee has the right to terminate an arrangement (and quite right too), but they and banks nearly always warn that you should also cancel subscriptions with the provider as you may be contractually obliged to pay them anyway.
.

But it is how we have been told to work PSD.
Yes we say to contact the co. As they are the ones who take the money.
But as we know even after baing told many still take funds...

Untill banks can come up with a system that will allow payments once cancelled to be stoped. Which would be far easier for Visa/Mastercard to put in place. Than for the banks to set up a system that say Mr x want retailer A to stop taking payments.
The whole PSD on CPA is a joke.