Bounced and Represented cheque charges

pmduk

Have you checked yet whether your landlord will charge you his fees?

UsetheFORCE

pmduk wrote: »

Have you checked yet whether your landlord will charge you his fees?

My landlord just called round an hour ago, he hasn't been charged anything as far as I am aware.

He wasn't aware that they would automatically represent the cheque, if it had been returned to him, he would of contacted me first.

pmduk

Be aware, many companies will charge you if a payment to them is dishonoured, this is in addition to your bank's charges to you.

BobQ

G4MHJ wrote: »

We had a cheque bounce for £15.00 on our joint account that my wife wrote. The bank paid US £50.00. Long story; when I telephoned the bank and checked my cleared balance it was over £500. So when I asked why they had returned a cheque Refer to Drawer they said that they couldn't accept a cheque signed by my wife as she was deceased ! My wife and I made an immediate unannounced visit demanding to see the Bank Manager and were treated like royalty with tea and biscuits. Computer error was of course the reason for the mistake. We changed bank immediately after this.

Not really relevant to the OP's otuation or the issue. But thanks for sharing your experience.

BobQ

Take_it_like_a_man,_sonny wrote: »

Actual the payee or the bank does not have to represent the cheque, but could do the issuer with a writ for fraud straight away?

.

Its not fraud unless you make a beneficial gain through writing the cheque. In this case its a debt.

But it is true that they could take legal action to recover the debt, in fact above certain ampount they can take out bankrupcy proceedings. But in the real world I doubt that these days anyone would do this without at least writing a letter to recover the sum involved. It costs money to recover a debt through the courts and who would do that knowing the money would most likely be paid in a few days.

Agricolae

Some confusion in this thread although to be honest the OP should just take the hit and move on (as I believe he is doing). Yorkshire Bank appear to have accepted that in the interests of fairness they will waive one of the charges (£70 for a cheque bouncing twice is pretty steep) so that's not a bad outcome.

The way cheques work in simplified form is:
1. Mr A hands cheque drawn on his account at Bank A to Mr B
2. Mr B pays in cheque into his account at Bank B
3. Bank B send cheque to Bank A, asking for their decision.
4. Bank A either honour the cheque or return it unpaid with a specified reason and sometimes a request to represent the cheque.

The case with RDPR (Refer to Drawer - Please Represent) and RD (Refer to Drawer) is pretty much as BobQ said.

In the example above Mr A doesn't have enough funds in his account when his bank receives the cheque from Bank B. Bank A considers the position of Mr A's accounts and how risky a customer he is, and if on the basis of this they think he has just made a mistake and will have funds in the account shortly they will use RDPR. If Bank A feels that Mr A will not be in a position to pay the cheque they will use RD. Obviously this doesn't look good for Mr A if this happens and could hurt his reputation with the beneficiary.

Not strictly relevant but in case people are interested this is the list of reasons banks give each other for returned cheques (from a Lloyds PDF on the Interwebs, so it's public information) - some are quite interesting (who thinks it's a good idea to write a cheque in pencil?):

List of Standard Answers for use by Banks when Returning Unpaid Cheques

- Refer to drawer (No funds)
- Refer to drawer, please represent (Funds expected)
- Effects Uncleared (Funds are in account but not cleared)
- Not signed in Accordance with Mandate (Wrong signature)
- No Mandate (Nothing to compare signature to)
- Payment Stopped (Payer has asked cheque to be stopped)
- Payment Stopped – Theft Reported (Payer has reported the cheque stolen)
- Payment Stopped – Awaiting Confirmation – Please Represent (Payer has asked for cheque to be stopped but confirmation is required)
- Payment Prohibited by Legal Order (self explanatory)
- Payment Prevented - Insolvency Act Proceedings (self explanatory)
- Crossed by Two Bankers (Risk of cheque being paid twice as two banks have stamped it)
- Drawer Deceased (self explanatory - cheques become invalid once the issuer is dead)
- Suspected Fraudulent / counterfeit Cheque (self explanatory)
- Account closed (Payer account is closed - happens sometimes with old chequebooks)
- Account Transferred – Try 00-00-00 (Asks beneficiary bank to try another bank with details "00-00-00")
- No Account (Payer account details not recognised by bank)
- Non clearing Item (Cheque is not actually a cheque but is something else)
- Post Dated (Date on cheque not reached)
- Out of Date (Date on cheque is more than 6 months ago)
- Words and Figures Differ (self explanatory)
- Alteration Requires Drawer’s Signature (someone has altered the cheque and the alteration wasn't signed by the payer)
- Payee’s Discharge Required / Irregular (Not sure)
- Cheque Incomplete (self explanatory)
- Cheque Drawn in Pencil (self explanatory)
- Mutilated Cheque (cheque damaged/illegible)
- Refer to Drawer – Not Drawn in Accordance with Cheque Card Criteria (not used)
- Signature Differs – Not Drawn in Accordance with Cheque Card Criteria (not used)
- Payment Stopped – Not Drawn in Accordance with Cheque Card Criteria (not used)

• Other Standard Answers Where Cheques Are Missing

- Original Cheque Required (self explanatory)
- Missing Item – Drawer Refuses Permission to Debit (Payer not happy for money to be paid without the actual cheque)
- Missing Item – Unable to Obtain Drawer’s Permission to Debit (Payer not contactable for whatever reason).