Cost of Food & Obesity Amongst Poorer People

breadlinebetty

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is no unhealthy food
only unhealthy diets and unhealthy ways of living.

I disagree that there's no unhealthy foods. Some convenience foods - Pot Noodles for example - are complete rubbish.

Of course, eating rubbish food once in a while won't hurt, but some people live on rubbish like that!

They're now even seeing cases of rickets and malnutrition amongst children - who are actually obese - but totally malnourished!

aliasojo

Generali wrote: »

Generally the market provides what people want. I lived in a very poor part of London in my 20s and what was on offer was lots of fresh fruit and veg, fresh fish (not many suburbs can support 2 fishmongers plus a chippie selling wet fish plus most corner shops selling things like salt cod) and several butchers (mostly halal).

We (meaning me and my neighbours) shopped cheaply at the local stores and stalls. If we'd been wanting to eat crap then we'd have been inundated with 'Southern Fried Chicken' stores and all that rubbish that was all over the rest of south London.

The area was West Norwood. It's really not a nice place at all but you could eat well, very cheaply if you cooked for yourself.

And that's fine if you live in a place that has more than one shop.

I grew up in Edinburgh, large city, plentiful choices.

I moved when I was 16 to the Highlands. Plenty of choice of fields, not much in the way of retail shops. Eventually a farmer's market started in one of the small towns, even then it was only once a month.

People were delighted when Tesco finally arrived, but the other side of that was the fact that lack of competition kept prices high.

CLAPTON wrote: »

Which specific ingredient would you say is 'bad' and shouldn't be eaten in any circumstances?

I think you are being a tad pedantic and silly so in order to stop this now.......batter coated deep fried mars bars are acceptable in some people's opinion. Is that accurate?

adouglasmhor

CLAPTON wrote: »

Last week I cycled 56 miles over a rather hilly course.
In conjunction with liquids and other foods I would say that a deep fried battered mars bar would not have been inappropriate.

Which specific ingredient would you say is 'bad' and shouldn't be eaten in any circumstances?

I take it the second sentence is meant for me?


Partially hydrogenated vegetable oils.

On 15 April 2010, a BMJ (British Medical Journal) editorial called for trans fats to be "virtually eliminated in the United Kingdom by next year".

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/food-aliment/trans-eng.php

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/nda100326.htm

posh*spice

A._Badger wrote: »

It's depressing to see the ease with which the fictitious 'five a day' campiagn persists due to the power of cheap journalism and expensive marketing.

The figure five was clutched out of thin air by Susan Foerster, a Californian nutrionist (a state which produces many of America's fruit and vegetable crops) in the 1980s, as being double the average intake and 'therefore good for you'

All it took was for nanny to crank-up the marketing campaign...

Yup - No science behind it at all Completely made up. A complete work of fiction.

lobbyludd

If you are interested "good calories, bad calories" by gary taube is an interesting summary (from a lay-person/journalist rather than a scientist) regarding why people, - independent of their activity levels, lay down fat when they eat primarily carbohydrate dense/nutritionally low value food, and have been documented to do so through history.

Was it the ONS who did a comparison of price per calorie for food containing some nutritional value versus sugar+fat+salt (i.e. all cakes/biscuits/pizza/ frozen lasgne etc)? - worth a look, try and find it.

salt+sugar+fat as a combination triggers "happy chemicals" to flood in your brain -

Untreated mental health problems are more concentrated in more deprived areas (deprivation leads to mental health issues and mental heath issues lead to deprivation). salt+sugar+fat can be a quick and cheap way to manage a mental health problem.

There's also a potential addiction element ongoing here.

Nutritional advice can be complex, or overly simplistic, contradictory, not evidence based, and often has the opposite effect to that intended because it's based on "common sense" that sounds right rather than evidence that it actually is good for you.

Have you read the book "Good Omens"? in it the fast-food industry is the work of the devil, where people are conned (by advertising) into eating nutritionally empty high calorie food, so that they become both obese and malnourished, dying of starvation and obesity at the same time. See first point.

OP: why do you want to know? are you planning to do something to help? or to invest in a scheme that would help or asking for advice for a friend and why ask on this forum in particular? or was it yet another chance to open a "debate" where posters pass judgement on the decisions, oportunities and capabilities of others and find them woefully lacking.

Because given that being poor and obese does not offer enough challenges to mental well-being it is important to ensure that those at the bottom of the pile know that:

a) it is all their own fault
b) they are lazy/stupid/selfish/slothful/greedy
c) the rest of the hard-working/intelligent/philanthropic/energetic/sharing people are fed up of paying for their shiftless existence.

I'm not so much asking WHY poorer people eat the way they do - I'm just curious how they can afford to eat so much?:cool:

Because crap food per calorie costs much less, and it makes you feel good, and full, but not for long. That's both of yor questions answered.

Perhaps instead those obese poorer people could make themselves feel better by belittling others?

My bias is this: My first degree was in human biochemistry. I work full-time in health, and am a single parent. I spent the first 31 years of my life underweight. Marriage to an untreated alcoholic saw me increasingly eating rubbish to cope with very difficult circumstances and battling depression, the last 6 months, I have become obese. My divorce has left me financially in difficulties despite earning much more than the national average.

I am neither lazy, nor stupid nor genetically slothful. I eat a lot of rubbish because the endorphin flood rescues me from intrusive thoughts that threaten to crush me. Doing so keeps me a productive tax paying "wealth generating" member of society. I pay for private therapy that is helping me to find better ways of dealing with this. (not available on the NHS).

CLAPTON

adouglasmhor wrote: »

I take it the second sentence is meant for me?


Partially hydrogenated vegetable oils.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/food-aliment/trans-eng.php

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/nda100326.htm

you haven't really given a view but

according [STRIKE]you[/STRIKE] to your excellent references trans fats are naturally found in dairy products, beef and lamb as well as being created in many margarines etc

and you advocating their total elimination from our diets?

adouglasmhor

CLAPTON wrote: »

you have really given a viewbut

according you your excellent references trans fats are naturally found in dairy products, beef and lamb as well as being created in many margarines etc

and you advocating their total elimination from our diets?

That is really a moronic reply from you. I specified the non naturally occurring hydrogenated vegetable oils I never mentioned the naturally occurring animal (… not vegetable)derived sources, where did you get that from? The jury is out on the naturally occurring ones in animal products and they exist in far lower concentrations than the ones used in commercial shortenings etc.

Also in you last sentence whether you meant “and” (which you used) or “are” which would have made sense the answer is no, all the things you mention can be valuable parts of a healthy diet, and I have no objection to them.

CLAPTON

adouglasmhor wrote: »

That is really a moronic reply from you. I specified the non naturally occurring hydrogenated vegetable oils I never mentioned the naturally occurring animal (… not vegetable)derived sources, where did you get that from? The jury is out on the naturally occurring ones in animal products and they exist in far lower concentrations than the ones used in commercial shortenings etc.

Also in you last sentence whether you meant “and” (which you used) or “are” which would have made sense the answer is no, all the things you mention can be valuable parts of a healthy diet, and I have no objection to them.

bizarre...................

adouglasmhor

CLAPTON wrote: »

bizarre...................

Yes you are.

olly300

ILW wrote: »

The obese will never accept that as it gives them no excuses.

The figures prove absolutely nothing.

The "average man" in 1960 would have been shorter in height than the "average man" in 2000. If both "average man" where doing the same type of job so had the same amount of physical activity and had the same build, the man in 2000 would actually need more calories.
The figures support this hypothesis.

The point is you can quote figures and argue they prove something when there is simply not enough information about the figures i.e. how the data was collected, who was in the sample to argue anything at all.