Hit by refuse lorry who I had to chase

claturner

Hi all

Sorry for the long post and thank you in advance for reading it. I had a car accident the other day after I dropped my daughter off at nursery. I was driving home and there was a Veolia dustbin lorry that was stationary on a main road, just before the junction of a side road. I signalled to overtake it and as I was starting to go past, it started moving forward and turning left and it's back end went into my front left wheel arch. There is a dent and a lot of scratches.

They just started driving off. No idea if they realised what they had done or whether, being in such a big vehicle, they had no idea that they had knocked a little Golf. Anyway, I beeped continuously but they didn't stop. I then had to turn left myself and follow them. I was beeping constantly trying to attract their attention and this went on for about 3/4 mile. They were driving way over 30mph on residential roads that have a 20 mph speed limit.

Finally, we got to a busy junction and they couldn't pass and so had to acknowledge my beeping. I got out and told them what they had done and they shrugged their shoulders. I eventually got them to fill out a "Bump Card". The fact they have these in their vehicles makes me think that "bumps" are standard practice.

Anyway, I called the number (a company called Converge) and explained what had happened and they said they would investigate and get back to me. I got a letter in the post yesterday which read, "we have now concluded our initial investigations with our client and can confirm that liability is in dispute." They go on to write, "It is our client's position that they have no knowledge of causing any damage to your property."

They have said that I would need to submit evidence in respect of my allegations. This may include: photos of damage; CCTV of the area; or independent witness statements.

I have photos of the damage and of the truck, including registration number, but how do I prove that they did it? I have checked with Camden and there is no CCTV of that area, and there may well have been witnesses but as I had to chase them 3/4 of a mile down the road, any witnesses at the scene would have driven off.

Previously, they had said that I didn't need to contact my insurance as they may settle outside of that, but now they are saying I need to seek independent legal advice and/or consult with my insurer.

Please help! This is the first car that I have ever insured personally as previously we had had a lease car through my partner's work. This is also a leased car but leased privately this time. What do I need to do? I don't want to have to fork out for legal advice and don't want something that I am not to blame for to affect my insurance premium. Should I pursue this? Sorry for all the questions but I'm quite stressed out by this and a bit lost as to what to do now.

Thanks in advance.

fivetide

You should let your insurer know anyway even if it is just for info.

Do you have legal cover? that may help. Don't be too disheartened though. I had a similar incident when a lorry hit my parked car. I got a similar letter back saying that liability was in dispute and I wrote back saying apart from my car not knowing the green cross code it is unlikely to have jumped out in front of their vehicle and liability was therefore not at all in dispute.

They coughed up sharpish.

Difficulty here is you were moving so they may say they were indicating and you've essentially run into them. Remember the lorry crew are not independent witnesses either though.

EDIT - as it is leased i would get your insurance on the case. Even if it does go through the third party the repairs will need to be approved by the lease company otherwise you could find yourself being billed for the repair when you hand the car back.

5t.

brat

Best advice at the time would have been to contact the police, as the other vehicle had failed to stop at the scene of the accident. The police could have taken the opportunity to photograph the damage to both vehicles and do some rough measurements to try to attribute the damage to this collision.

The van driver has to deny knowledge of the accident, otherwise would be guilty of failing to stop at the scene of an accident, and it's probably reasonable to accept that they may not have seen the collision occurring especially if they were manoevring a large vehicle into a side street.

Leaving proportion of liability aside for a moment, all you can reasonably do is make your insurance company aware, and let them do the initial negotiation. The best evidence you could have is measurements of the height of the damage, the type of damage and the road layout to show that thee is evidential consistency throughout. You were the person who witnessed the accident happening, and that should count for quite a lot. Most people wouldn't chase after someone and falsely allege that they crashed into your car.

I don't have much practical experience with insurance companies, others may be able to help more in that vein.

Strider590

I've heard of Ambulance chasers, but this takes the biscuit!!

Seriously though, you seem to have done everything right, it's just a long hassle filled journey to get a reasonable conclusion.

Quentin

claturner wrote: »

.....I don't want to have to fork out for legal advice and don't want something that I am not to blame for to affect my insurance premium.

The only way to avoid this affecting future premiums is to just pay your own repairs as even when you are blameless an incident on your history nowadays can lead to a premium loading at renewal.

But if the damage is a lot, then surely that will make claiming worthwhile?

It looks like claiming off the third party is not going to be straightforward, so (assuming you have comprehensove cover) your best option does seem to be to make a claim and leave it to your insurer to establish liability.

Assuming the third party eventually is found liable, then you would be able to pursue them for your uninsured losses (eg your excess), and get your NCD reinstated.

forgotmyname

Its in the system now, Its quite likely they your premiums will be affected.

As fivetide says, Make sure you use a proper repairers. Been posts on here from people who got stung handing the cars back when they said the repairs were substandard.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Blame might not be clear cut, refuse trucks have considerable rear overhang which will swing out the opposite way to the turn, it was turning left anyway so overtaking at that point could have you considered to be in the wrong.

You say the vehicle was stationary and then moved as you went to overtake, the driver of the lorry could feasably say he was turning left in the normal way and wouldn't have expected someone to try to squeeze through a diminishing gap, which to be fair people do try with manoeuvering lorries and often end up with a bent car for their troubles.

Not suggesting you are to blame in this, just it won't be an easy claim for you, unless you can produce a witness.

I doubt the driver will have driven off if he was aware of the contact,

colino

I really don't see, without at least one independent witness, how this will work out favourably for you. You might want to revise your recollection of the events where you narrowly overtook an obvious hazard unsafely at a junction and then persued another driver, breaking the speed limit, to catch your quarry. Have a look at your excesses, both voluntary and compulsory and see if a local bodyshop can fix your car for much less. (Never mind the increase in future premiums).

BertTheRaccoon

I think this has split liability written all over it.

Where you are going to come unstuck is that you have come up behind a large refuse vehicle just before a junction on the left. How long had the vehicle been there stationary? Was it already indicating left? Were you able to see in front of the vehicle as to why it was stationary before you started to pass it?

Did you have to drive onto the other side of the road?

It is clear to me the overhang these vehicles have on the back is considerable and so when he turns left, the rear section of the bin lorry does not follow the path of the wheels and so it swings out and this is what has clobbered you.

The only real allegation of negligence you can make against the other driver is that he did not check his offside mirror before making the left turn. But the fact that the damage is to the passenger front wing on your vehicle suggests you were only just starting to overtake when he has started turning.

Honestly speaking, I think you'll get clobbered for the majority share of the blame, if not go down in full.

Operators of large fleets of vehicle like this generally do play hard ball and are happy to defend claims.

Notmyrealname

BertTheRaccoon wrote: »

But the fact that the damage is to the passenger front wing on your vehicle suggests you were only just starting to overtake when he has started turning.

Agree it doesn't look good and knock for knock is the likely outcome.

BTW as for the driving off, you can shove a car sideways up the road in a truck and not notice. The driver would genuinely not have felt it.

Sgt_Pepper_2

brat wrote: »

Best advice at the time would have been to contact the police, as the other vehicle had failed to stop at the scene of the accident. The police could have taken the opportunity to photograph the damage to both vehicles and do some rough measurements to try to attribute the damage to this collision.

The van driver has to deny knowledge of the accident, otherwise would be guilty of failing to stop at the scene of an accident, and it's probably reasonable to accept that they may not have seen the collision occurring especially if they were manoevring a large vehicle into a side street.

Leaving proportion of liability aside for a moment, all you can reasonably do is make your insurance company aware, and let them do the initial negotiation. The best evidence you could have is measurements of the height of the damage, the type of damage and the road layout to show that thee is evidential consistency throughout. You were the person who witnessed the accident happening, and that should count for quite a lot. Most people wouldn't chase after someone and falsely allege that they crashed into your car.

I don't have much practical experience with insurance companies, others may be able to help more in that vein.

How do you take some rough measurements when both vehicles have moved 3/4 of a mile?