Vent - New primary school headmistress.

Gra76

Two of my 3 kids are now in primary school, the youngest part-time as he's not quite old enough to go full time yet. The eldest is in year 3.

Last year the schools headmaster retired. He was a nice chap, well to do and the kids liked him. We never had any problems. His replacement is a much younger headmistress.

We very rarely heard anything from the school until she arrived. Now we hear from them every few days.

Here's some of the things she's implimented since she's been in charge:

- If either of my kids has the slightest feeling of being even vaguely unwell the school now rings myself or my wife at work to come and pick the kids up. I don't mean the kids are being sick or anything, it doesn't need to be anywhere near that. All they have to do is say they have a slight tummy ache or a sore toe and the school are on the phone demanding we pick them up. 99% of the time when I've been to pick one of them up there's been nothing wrong with them at all. Last week they rang to ask my wife to pick my eldest up because he'd tripped over in the playground. She had visions of blood everywhere. When she arrived he hadn't injured himself in any way but there was a small scuff on his trousers. To say I was bemused is putting it mildly. It's a 30 minute drive for me and a 40 minute drive for my wife to get to the school from work and it means we have to take the rest of the day off because for some bizarre reason the school refuses to accept the kids back into classes once we've been to the school to pick them up, even if they say they feel fine.

- The school doesn't allow the kids to bring a pencil case with them. Why? Because there might be a couple of kids in the school whos parents can't afford to buy their kids a pencil case and it's unfair on them and their kids. What?! Last time I looked a pencil case cost about £2. That's a shade over the cost of half a pint of lager and less than 10 cigs these days. I'll buy the impoverished kids a pencil case myself if it stops this nonsense...

- The kids packed lunches must have a piece of fruit in them (which I can understand) and if they don't the parents get letters sent home. They are not allowed fizzy drinks. The teachers have to inspect every childs packed lunch before they can have them. Last week my wife gave my son a small bottle of sparkling water to take with him as we'd run out of the normal flat drinks we give him. The teacher refused to let him have it and then wouldn't let him go and get any tap water. My son is on the pupils version of the school council and at their meetings the headteacher gives them fizzy lemonade! Good to see a completely inconsistent approach!

- If the kids aren't in class 5 mins before the morning lesson starts then they lock the doors and don't let them in unless they go to the front reception with a good excuse. Even then they get marked as absent for the morning on the register. I don't see how that's constructive in any way, shape or form.

I have a friend on the PTA and he says she's trying to get more of these barmy ideas on the go. He did tell me the entire PTA can't stand her and have already managed to persuade her not to go through with half a dozen other hairbrained ideas, but he thinks there's plenty more to come!

Things have obviously changed a LOT since I went to school. It's run more like a concentration camp these days. I get the feeling this might only apply to my kids school....but if your school has any barmy rules I'd be happy to hear them to assure me I'm not the only one who thinks this is daft!

JimmyTheWig

You say the new head is young - is this her first headship?
I'm wondering if she's trying out all the ideas she's thought up over the years. We all do it. "If I ruled the world I'd...". Difference is she's now in a position to do it!

Things like going through the front desk if you're late I can understand. Having a good excuse? What would they do if the child doesn't have a good excuse?
Marking them absent on the register for the morning? No harm done to the child (is an employer or university in many years to come going to ask about number of absences at primary school?) but will severely hurt the school's attendence figures which Ofsted, for one, won't like! This, in particular, is what makes me think the head is new.

Good thinking about buying other children a pencil case if that is the real issue. Maybe it's something the PTA (via your friend) could get involved in?

As to being called in after every knock or sniffle I'd say you need to talk to the school about it. Maybe they've had times in the past where parents haven't been contacted when it has been serious? (This has been more like our experience.) Maybe they are over compensating?

Not being allowed fizzy water, I think you have to accept that, annoying as it is. Would the dinner staff really be expected to examine everyone's drink to establish if it was fizzy water or lemonade?
But to not allow a child to get water to have with their lunch I would be furiously up in arms about. Not being allowed access to drinking water is one of my pet hates. I see it as a basic human right. I would be complaining to the head about this.
If a complaint to the head gets nowhere then write to the chair of governors.

pulliptears

Gra76 wrote: »

Two of my 3 kids are now in primary school, the youngest part-time as he's not quite old enough to go full time yet. The eldest is in year 3.

Last year the schools headmaster retired. He was a nice chap, well to do and the kids liked him. We never had any problems. His replacement is a much younger headmistress.

We very rarely heard anything from the school until she arrived. Now we hear from them every few days.

Here's some of the things she's implimented since she's been in charge:

- If either of my kids has the slightest feeling of being even vaguely unwell the school now rings myself or my wife at work to come and pick the kids up. I don't mean the kids are being sick or anything, it doesn't need to be anywhere near that. All they have to do is say they have a slight tummy ache or a sore toe and the school are on the phone demanding we pick them up. 99% of the time when I've been to pick one of them up there's been nothing wrong with them at all. Last week they rang to ask my wife to pick my eldest up because he'd tripped over in the playground. She had visions of blood everywhere. When she arrived he hadn't injured himself in any way but there was a small scuff on his trousers. To say I was bemused is putting it mildly. It's a 30 minute drive for me and a 40 minute drive for my wife to get to the school from work and it means we have to take the rest of the day off because for some bizarre reason the school refuses to accept the kids back into classes once we've been to the school to pick them up, even if they say they feel fine.

When they call have you suggested to them to leave the child for an hour and if things dont improve you will collect? My DD's school has been overzealous in the past with sending her home, but I have requested her be left for an hour and more often than not its the last I hear of it.

- The school doesn't allow the kids to bring a pencil case with them. Why? Because there might be a couple of kids in the school whos parents can't afford to buy their kids a pencil case and it's unfair on them and their kids. What?! Last time I looked a pencil case cost about £2. That's a shade over the cost of half a pint of lager and less than 10 cigs these days. I'll buy the impoverished kids a pencil case myself if it stops this nonsense...

If the school are providing the stationery then I don't see the issue, in fact, much easier for them to give it out than to have kids rummaging in pencil cases mid lesson.

- The kids packed lunches must have a piece of fruit in them (which I can understand) and if they don't the parents get letters sent home. They are not allowed fizzy drinks. The teachers have to inspect every childs packed lunch before they can have them. Last week my wife gave my son a small bottle of sparkling water to take with him as we'd run out of the normal flat drinks we give him. The teacher refused to let him have it and then wouldn't let him go and get any tap water. My son is on the pupils version of the school council and at their meetings the headteacher gives them fizzy lemonade! Good to see a completely inconsistent approach!

The fruit thing is pretty standard across most primary schools now I believe. I'd ask for clarification with the water issues though.

- If the kids aren't in class 5 mins before the morning lesson starts then they lock the doors and don't let them in unless they go to the front reception with a good excuse. Even then they get marked as absent for the morning on the register. I don't see how that's constructive in any way, shape or form.

Again, something else which I see as a great idea. Nothing worse than starting a lesson for 2 or 3 stragglers coming in from the loo. If this teaches children to be punctual then it can surely only be a good thing?

I have a friend on the PTA and he says she's trying to get more of these barmy ideas on the go. He did tell me the entire PTA can't stand her and have already managed to persuade her not to go through with half a dozen other hairbrained ideas, but he thinks there's plenty more to come!

Things have obviously changed a LOT since I went to school. It's run more like a concentration camp these days. I get the feeling this might only apply to my kids school....but if your school has any barmy rules I'd be happy to hear them to assure me I'm not the only one who thinks this is daft!

It does seem like nothing the head is going to do will be ok with you. You are condemning her ideas before you have even heard them.
Other than the fizzy drink mix up (which would be more than likely due to an eager member of lunch staff) I really don't see where the problem is.

WestonDave

I suspect that whilst a lot of the changes can be seen to have reasons behind them, given time they will also be seen to have their downsides. Yes its a good idea in theory to try to ensure everyone arrives on time, but reality is that many parents with kids at primary school have other kids in the house and sometimes it just doesn't go to plan - they will need to balance a sensible desire to have everyone there ready to start without disruption, against needlessly knocking their attendance stats because little Jonny's baby brother threw up just as they were leaving the house. Similarly with the "ill" kids thing - its clearly intended to avoid having staff tied up monitoring "sick" kids, but if kids end up missing lots of part days and getting behind, the gain from having staff available for teaching might be lost in their SAT's results where kids have missed a lot of school (especially where kids catch on that "my tummy hurts" = getting to go home to mummy!).

We've all had to learn new jobs and there is a balance between hitting all the "issues" when you are new and change is expected (and thereby missing the chance to sit back and see if there were good reasons why certain things were allowed to "slide") and waiting and then getting flack because everyone had expected things to carry on as they were so change is harder at that point.

The real test is whether the kids are learning - its not whether you miss more work due to having to look after "sick" kids - school is a place to learn not a workplace creche - so if all these things lead to better learning outcomes, the right thing to do is to appreciate that your kid is learning better and suck up the hassle that goes with that.

(And yes every school has its share of barmy rules - among ours is that despite everyone trying to encourage non car means of getting to school, kids are not allowed to bring bikes to school unless they are doing cycling proficiency that day - which in itself is a contradiction as why bother doing it if you can't cycle!)

Valli

most of these sound potty - but the late being marked as absent does sound really stupid.

- if there was a fire alarm, for instance, the numbers won't tally. Why not mark as Late?

The local authority are going to be querying attendance rates before too long; I would have thought, if kids are in school but marked as absent. get together with some parents and have a WHOLE class late. That might make them rethink their marking as absent!

ThumbRemote

Valli wrote: »

The local authority are going to be querying attendance rates before too long; I would have thought, if kids are in school but marked as absent. get together with some parents and have a WHOLE class late. That might make them rethink their marking as absent!

Or, do the sensible thing, and get there on time!

PinkLipgloss

I suspect the school has a number of "serial offender" late comers and are hoping to successfully tackle it with this new rule.

I know from my experience of teaching in Scotland that 99% of the time it was the SAME students that were late almost EVERY DAY and of course it is not their fault - it is their parents.

It is extremely disruptive as teachers are pushed for time as it is to deliver a balanced curriculum without having to deal with constant late comers.

Also it is not fair on the other children as typically you introduce an area of learning, do a demonstration, check understanding and then set a task. After that I typically focus on one of my groupings. HOWEVER if a child is late missing one of the key steps outlined above you have to take precious time away from one of your groups in order to re-do the steps above.

Valli

ThumbRemote wrote: »

Or, do the sensible thing, and get there on time!

In an ideal world, yes, but you missed my point - I think marking a child 'absent' when that child was merely late is going to cause an issue - means that the register will not accurately reflect the number in school - an issue if there is an incident.
There should be an option to mark a late arrival not merely record the child as absent.

OfSted would have something to say about this, as safeguarding is one of the priorities at the moment.

Gra76

I'm pretty sure it is her first headship.

To answer a few questions:

Parents are expected to provide the majority of stationary, which suits me fine. I think the only thing the school supplies are pencils.

We've already spoken to the school a number of times this term about being asked to pick the kids up when there isn't anything worth picking them up for. Their response so far has been "It's school policy" and they won't comment further. This is something I will be putting to my friend on the PTA as it's not just me that's been gripeing about it. I know quite a few other parents that haven't been happy to be called away from work because son or daughter feels fractionally poorly or has bumped their knee on a door frame or some other trivial reason.

As for the fizzy water, it was an unopened branded bottle. It couldn't have been mistaken for anything else unless the teacher just didn't bother to read the label - which is possible but unlikely. I was more annoyed that the teacher wouldn't let him go and get some water from the tap.

As for the other hairbrained ideas the headmistress has tried and failed with, my friend has told me some of them and they were completely and utterly bonkers, but for the life of me I don't remember what they were! I'll have to ask him again!

p.s - Are any of you teachers?! Specifically the ones that think she's not nuts?!

Valli

Rather than raise issues with the PTA find out who your parent governors are. The Governors have more clout. The Governors and Head are going to have to account, sooner or later, to the LA if absences rise - or appear to.

The word I would use is keen;)

JimmyTheWig

Gra76 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it is her first headship.

Thought so!

Their response so far has been "It's school policy" and they won't comment further. This is something I will be putting to my friend on the PTA as it's not just me that's been gripeing about it.

Unless the PTA in your school is some sort of school council, I doubt that it's anything to do with them.
If the school aren't giving you a good enough answer then complain directly to the head.
If she doesn't give you a good enough answer then complain directly to the school governors. They should, at least, listen to you.

As for the fizzy water, it was an unopened branded bottle. It couldn't have been mistaken for anything else unless the teacher just didn't bother to read the label - which is possible but unlikely.

Some of us wash out and use old bottles (very MSE!), so the type of bottle doesn't help much.
Yes, they could have checked it was unopened, but I doubt they want to go to that hassle. Rules are rules, I'm afraid.

I was more annoyed that the teacher wouldn't let him go and get some water from the tap.

I completely agree, as I said earlier.

p.s - Are any of you teachers?! Specifically the ones that think she's not nuts?!

Not a teacher, but my mum and sister are both secondary school teachers so it's "in the blood". I was a parent governor at our primary school until recently, so also know about the correct ways to complain from that angle.


If I were you I would pick my battles.
Some things (e.g. not allowed fizzy water which is probably more healthy than an allowed Fruit Shoot) are just annoying but not worth making a big deal over.
Other things (e.g. not getting a proper answer about why you must take your child home after any minor incident, not allowed access to drinking water at lunchtime) are more serious and are worthy of making a complaint through the right channels until you get a decent response.