Confused by TFL Red Route penalty charge!

Charliezoo

Hi all,

I recently parked in a marked bay on a High Street and have been issued with a penalty charge. I was aware there was a sign by the row of bays which said it was a Red Route but it also said it was for loading with a max stay of 20 minutes like this -



I parked there to pick up a suitcase from a friend's flat who lives opposite so I consider that to be loading. I'm pregnant and needed the loo desperately so used the toilet while I was there too. The time on the two photos provided show that I was gone for just under 8 minutes in total, this would've been less had I not been heavily pregnant and the road I had to cross not been really busy with no pedestrian crossing.This was caught on RNC camera and the alleged contravention was 46: Stopped where prohibited (on a Red Route or Clearway).

I'm really confused that where I parked was a marked bay with dashed white lines clearly marking out the parking area and there were no red lines on the road at all. I understand that the sign said it was a Red Route but as the same sign said 'loading only' I though it would be ok to park there for a few minutes while I picked something up. There were several other cars parked and when I left another car took the space straight away so they must be making some serious money from those few spaces.

Is there anything I can do? I'm still confused that there were marked loading bays but the ticket says I stopped where prohibited.

I'd be grateful for any advice.

Tilt

I think you will find that loading has to be a continuous activity and that the CEO will expect to see the car unattended for no more than 5 minutes at a time. Also, i'm not sure that a suitcase would be an item which qualifies to to be loading.

Having said that if you are still within the discount period, you should always appeal anyway.

Charliezoo

I understand that the car shouldn't be unattended for more than 5 minutes at a time (although I do wish this was detailed on the signage) but I was gone for 7.28 minutes and would've been able to load the car far more quickly had I not been pregnant, struggling with a bulky suitcase and trying to cross a busy high street during the school run.

The second photo that was provided shown my vehicle pulling away from the space, I believe I actually loaded the car at least a minute or two before this photo was taken. Another car had parked behind me and had hemmed me in to it took me a bit of time just to shift backwards and forwards to be able to manouvre out of the space so the second photo seems particularly unfair.

Tilt wrote: »

Also, i'm not sure that a suitcase would be an item which qualifies to to be loading. .

There doesn't seem to be any restriction on what type of item you can pick up as the TFL website states -

Loading bays are an essential part of the red route network as they allow businesses, residents and visitors to make and receive vital, often bulky deliveries.

I will try an appeal letter, it is annoying seeing I was genuinely loading and made the pick up as quickly as possible.

The_Slithy_Tove

Definitely appeal. There is no hard-and-fast rule around how long betweem visits to the car. It can easily be more than 5 minutes if you have to go through access doors, wait for lifts, etc., etc.

Go here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30), register and start a new thread. You'll need to scan/photo the PCN, scrub your personal details, and post it up. Pepipoo has lots of experts who know how to challenge council/TfL tickets.

Charliezoo

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Definitely appeal. There is no hard-and-fast rule around how long betweem visits to the car. It can easily be more than 5 minutes if you have to go through access doors, wait for lifts, etc., etc.

Go here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30), register and start a new thread. You'll need to scan/photo the PCN, scrub your personal details, and post it up. Pepipoo has lots of experts who know how to challenge council/TfL tickets.

Thanks for this, I'll try posting on the website you suggested.

I'm wondering if I have grounds for appeal based on the photos they provided in the letter - the first photo shows me exiting the car and the second shows me pulling away from the space, surely there should be a photo showing me loading the car? This would've been easy to see as I had to open the boot to be able to load - its quite possible that I began loading within the 5 minutes but I don't know this because they haven't provided a photo to show this! It doesn't seem right to stop the clock when I have already begun pulling away from the bay.

RENEGADE_2

Hi Charliezoo. I think, if I'm not mistaken, that "loading only" on the sign applies to commercial vehicles only and that private motors are excluded from even stopping there.

I hope I am wrong, I just cannot see the council accepting your rationale as "loading". Fingers crossed.

Tilt

RENEGADE wrote: »

Hi Charliezoo. I think, if I'm not mistaken, that "loading only" on the sign applies to commercial vehicles only and that private motors are excluded from even stopping there.

I hope I am wrong, I just cannot see the council accepting your rationale as "loading". Fingers crossed.

Happily I think you are wrong. The sign would say 'Goods Vehicle Loading' if it was restricted to commercial vehicle only.

Charliezoo

RENEGADE wrote: »

Hi Charliezoo. I think, if I'm not mistaken, that "loading only" on the sign applies to commercial vehicles only and that private motors are excluded from even stopping there.

I hope I am wrong, I just cannot see the council accepting your rationale as "loading". Fingers crossed.

See my quote from the TFL website in post #3.

RENEGADE_2

Right you are, good luck in overturning the dreadful penalty.

Coupon-mad

When you appeal do NOT mention the loo break. Loading a suitcase is OK, is an exemption and you can't be in 2 places at once (hence the car was unattended for a few minutes and you were slower than normal due to your pregnancy). So in that time the camera operator zoomed in on the car and produced a PCN - doesn't mean you have to pay it, you can appeal as far as adjudication and should win if you stick to the loading exemption.

First thing to do would be to check the PCN to see how to view the moving footage; the video. Do not rely on their carefully-selected still photos!

Claim the loading exemption. Include with your appeal, a letter from the occupant of the premises, with date & time & address, to corroborate your account (but without mentioning any loo break!!).

As already advised, pepipoo will help you to win this if you keep that new thread current and bump it with a reply when you need further advice.

RENEGADE_2

Plus, given the entire circumstance from top to bottom, if adjudication did eventually side with the authorities, I believe local press publicity would be a remedy. I mean, victimising a pregnant girl proven to be struggling in her condition and categorising this alongside every genuine abuser, their name will be dirt.