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Blackmailed by ill health pension provider ?

13

Comments

  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Linton wrote: »
    It looks like you may be wrong to do so:

    Quote from here:
    Rights under or in connection with an occupational pension scheme do not transfer under TUPE. However, this exclusion only applies to pension benefits that relate to ‘old age, invalidity or survivors’.

    It would seem that rights not associated with those three areas do get transferred. Suggest you seek proper legal advice before getting over-excited.

    Sorry - I have looked at this link and it doesn't read too clearly
    Am I covered under TUPE or not ?
    The exclusion implies that invalidity does not apply.....
    Plus - what other types of pension are there - other than "old age, invalidity or survivors" ??
  • snowcat53
    snowcat53 Posts: 602 Forumite
    edited 11 October 2012 at 11:11AM
    21Twinkle wrote: »
    Sorry - I have looked at this link and it doesn't read too clearly
    Am I covered under TUPE or not ?
    The exclusion implies that invalidity does not apply.....
    Plus - what other types of pension are there - other than "old age, invalidity or survivors" ??

    Redundancy and Early retirement benefits for example.

    It may appear that invalidity benefit rights do not automatically transfer under TUPE but it is far from clear whether this would apply to benefits already under payment, as yours are .This a complex area and if it is related to this you will need proper advice. On the other hand it may be the Trustees are entitled to change the rules.
    What has been said to you ?
    Are you in a union?
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 18,353 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Hung up my suit!
    21Twinkle wrote: »
    Sorry - I have looked at this link and it doesn't read too clearly
    Am I covered under TUPE or not ?
    The exclusion implies that invalidity does not apply.....
    Plus - what other types of pension are there - other than "old age, invalidity or survivors" ??


    It would seem to me that although the value of the pension is covered by TUPE the detailed Ts*Cs are specificly excluded. The other type of pension is early retirement. Looking through various articles it seems that there has been a court case where the judge ruled that pension payment during early retirement before normal retirement age should be covered by TUPE'd T&Cs because early retirement isnt "old age" until the normal retirement age and therefore wasnt covered by the exclusion.

    So the details of the link arent relevent to you, just the statement of the specific exclusion of invalidity pensions.

    However I am not a lawyer so that is why I suggested you consult one (or possibly the pensions advisory service) to get a definitive statement on the matter.
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 18,353 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Hung up my suit!
    snowcat53 wrote: »
    Redundancy and Early retirement benefits for example.

    It may appear that invalidity benefit rights do not automatically transfer under TUPE but it is far from clear whether this would apply to benefits already under payment, as yours are .This a complex area and if it is related to this you will need proper advice. On the other hand it may be the Trustees are entitled to change the rules.
    What has been said to you ?
    Are you in a union?

    I thought the invalidity pension was taken out after the TUPE transfer. Surely if it wasnt the OP wouldnt have been TUPE'd and so the issue wouldnt have arisen.
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    snowcat53 wrote: »
    Redundancy and Early retirement benefits for example.

    It may appear that invalidity benefit rights do not automatically transfer under TUPE but it is far from clear whether this would apply to benefits already under payment, as yours are .This a complex area and if it is related to this you will need proper advice. On the other hand it may be the Trustees are entitled to change the rules.
    What has been said to you ?
    Are you in a union?

    I have written a letter to the trustees but don't honestly expect any helpful advice from them - they are purely in it for profit
    In the meantime - I have been on to the Pension Advisory Service (nb I have not yet asked them to investigate / merely an enquiry - they say "YES WE WILL LOOK AT IT")
    If they are simply allowed to change the rules to suit them - something needs changing in the TUPE process....
    I am no longer in PCS union
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Linton wrote: »
    I thought the invalidity pension was taken out after the TUPE transfer. Surely if it wasnt the OP wouldnt have been TUPE'd and so the issue wouldnt have arisen.

    You are correct
    I was TUPEd in 2005 - redundant 2009 - deferred medical retirement 2010
    And according to the rules - the fact that this was deferred is not an issue (they don't mention deferral) !!
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Linton wrote: »
    Looking through various articles it seems that there has been a court case where the judge ruled that pension payment during early retirement before normal retirement age should be covered by TUPE'd T&Cs because early retirement isnt "old age" until the normal retirement age and therefore wasnt covered by the exclusion.

    Would it be possible for a link to this vital point ?
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 18,353 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Hung up my suit!
    21Twinkle wrote: »
    Would it be possible for a link to this vital point ?


    The link I gave you and the other cases it cites: "Beckmann and Martin". Googling "Beckmann and Martin TUPE" comes up with lots of info and learned discussion.
  • snowcat53
    snowcat53 Posts: 602 Forumite
    The 2 cases - Beckmann and Martin - were highly significant ECJ judgements, re TUPE rights in early retirement and redundancy. . However i can't see how they help with your case I'm afraid

    .
  • 50Twuncle
    50Twuncle Posts: 10,763 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    snowcat53 wrote: »
    The 2 cases - Beckmann and Martin - were highly significant ECJ judgements, re TUPE rights in early retirement and redundancy. . However i can't see how they help with your case I'm afraid

    .

    Why not?
    Please explain further.....
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