Second Hand Car - Advice Urgently Needed

ImADeity

Hi Guys

I bought a second hand Rav4 from a small independent garage in Essex on the 10th of February. I paid 8k for the car, and gave him my old Rav4 for 2k in part ex.

Two days after buying the car the engine management light came on, so I called the RAC, who said it was a problem with the sensors on the catalytic converter. I then called the garage, who agreed to bring the car back, letting me have my old car back as a courtesy car, whilst they sorted it out.

Unfortunately, they broke the sensor removing it, so it then had to go to a toyota main dealer to have the work done, which meant that I was without the car for a week.

When I got the car back, I drove it again for two days, before the ems light came on again. The dealer once more took it back, and took it to toyota, who diagnosed a new catalytic converter was required. The dealer paid for this and got the work done, which took another week, again lending me my old car back. Throughout this time he was reasonable and helpful.

I have now had the car back and up and running since the beginning of March. However, this evening the automatic gearbox appears to have given up - it wont go into first gear, and jumps straight into second, no accelleration, and the ems light is on again. Ive looked at the 3 month warranty I bought with the car, and it only covers me for up to 500.00 of work. Im really worried.

All my savings went on the car, and I dont have more money to spend on it.
Im waiting for a call back from the warranty people, but dont know whether I will be able to get it looked at because of the Easter holiday.

I am disabled and need to have transport as I cant get to work without the car - the public transport where I live is sparse, and finishes at 6pm in the evening! I also was meant to be going on holiday on Thursday - with the car.

Do you think I can get my car and money back ??? My old car is still on his website. Can I get claim under the sale of goods act - is this car of merchantable quality ?
:mad:
Opinions please!!! Im desperate !!!

ImADeity

Just spoke to the dealer, who says that because we took out a 3 month warranty, he has no responsibility to us, and we cant claim anything under the sale of good act. Basically he doesnt want to know.
HELLPPPPP please please advise me !!!!!

deanos

Give these folks a ring >

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

ImADeity

I will certainly give them a try when the world starts up again tomorrow! Ive just looked at the bus maps for my town and there are only six buses all day! Goodness knows how Im going to manage to get to and from the station!
The RAC came out last night and say it is the solenoid in the gearbox ??? I have to have it towed to a toyota dealer who will charge me 100 to run diagnostics, then presumably give me a price.
Cant believe this is happening to me !!!!

IvanOpinion

It sounds like you may have got a lemon. Can I suggest that you contact the previous owner on the tax book and ask them if they had any problems with the car or knew of any work that was needed. Your 3 month warranty is about to run out therefore I would be inclined to put something in writing and send it recorded delivery to the dealer saying that you are most disastisfied adn feel let down by his company.

The problem you have is that you are dealing with second hand car salesmen ... they are not known for gestures of goodwill.

Ivan

ImADeity

Ive written a letter today - does this sound ok ?



8th April 2007


Dear John

Toyota Rav4 registration
Legal Provisions
The Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Consumer Protection Act 1987.


Further to our telephone conversation this evening with regard to the problems we are now experiencing with the Toyota Rav4 registration which we purchased from you on the 10th of February 2007.

We called you on the Monday following the sale of the car to point out that despite being advertised with a full service history, the car had in fact not been serviced, so you agreed that we should bring the car back to you the following Saturday for service by yourselves.

As you are aware, that evening, two days after purchase of the car, the engine management light came on, and it was necessary to call out the RAC, who diagnosed the problem as either the catalytic converter, or the sensors. You took the car back on the Saturday when we brought it in for service, and said you would replace the sensor to the catalytic converter.

Unfortunately when you tried to remove the sensor it sheared off, so you had to take it to a Toyota main dealer for repair. You gave us our old car as a courtesy car, and our new car was repaired, coming back to us a week later.

Two days after the return of the vehicle, the lights came on again, and we returned the car to you once more. This time, you took the car straight to Toyota who diagnosed that this was due to the catalytic converter itself, which required replacing. You organised this and returned the car to us a further week later, again leaving us with our old car as a courtesy car.

This meant that for the first two weeks of ownership, we actually had the car in our possession for four days.

We have now had the car in our possession for six weeks, and today the emf lights have come on again, and the car is not running correctly – the automatic gearbox is not accepting first gear, and is pulling away in second gear.

After speaking with you, we called the RAC again, and they have said that there is a problem with the solenoid in the gearbox which needs to be verified by a Toyota dealer as they have the necessary diagnostic equipment. They have recommended that it cannot be driven and therefore will need to be towed to a main Toyota dealership who will have the necessary equipment and will charge £100 as a diagnosis charge.

During our telephone conversation today, you told me that as my husband had signed a warranty for three months with you, you were absolved under the Sale of Goods Act of any responsibility to repair the car and make it driveable.

The warranty covers by value of up to £500 in repairs and you said that we would have to pay for any costs above this.

The procedure from APA, the warranty company is:

1. We need to contact them to tell them the problem and how much it will cost to repair
2. The dealers who are going to repair it then need to phone APA for go-ahead to start work

This means that we will have to have the car towed by the RAC to the Toyota Dealer and pay £100 diagnosis – even before contacting APA.

Following the diagnosis we will only then know how much the repair will be to make the car driveable once more, and how much over the £500 it will cost.

Unfortunately for us, this is occurring on Easter Sunday, so nobody (APA or Toyota Dealer) is available to be contacted until Tuesday 10th April, to sort this out.

It is not the case that the warranty supercedes our rights under Section 14 of the Sale of Goods act, but that it simply serves as an extra assurance.


Our position is this:

We have bought from you for a value of £7995 a 5 years old Toyota Rav4, with 49500 miles on the clock, that according to the RAC, now un-driveable two months after purchase.

The Sale of Goods act describes that Second Hand Cars must be:

• of satisfactory quality
• fit for purpose, and
• as described

This refers to the car at time of purchase and this is over and above any warranty.

Considering we have only had the car in our possession for 6 weeks since purchase, as it was being repaired for the first 2 weeks (and have driven approx 200 miles) - we do not accept that this is a reasonable enough time for you, as the dealer to absolve yourself of responsibility and to fall back on the warranty, therefore we, as the customer should not have to pay to make the goods ‘fit for purpose’ – i.e. driveable.

If you are not prepared to pay any excess from the warranty then you are not ensuring that the car is fit for purpose and the deal needs to be reversed.

I see from your website that you still have our old car, and I would ask that this vehicle be returned to us, along with the payment made to you on the 10th February of 6000.00.

Should you be unprepared to refund our money and car, please be aware that we shall have no option but to take this matter further, and pursue it via the necessary legal channels – our advisors have been informed already of our situation.

Yours sincerely

deanos

Sounds good

IvanOpinion

Letter looks good to me. I would however suggest that you get Toyota to do a good check over the car. To have had a couple of significant failures in the first two weeks of ownership may be highlighting a bigger underlying problem. You might want to include that in the letter and say you will be expecting the person that sold you the car to cover the cost

ivan

ImADeity

Good idea - thanks. So am I better off getting my old (and very reliable) car back and a refund, or getting the work done on this and fighting him to cover the additional costs over the 500.00 covered by the warranty? either way I think Im going to have a fight on my hands - I wonder which option will be the simplest ?
I cant believe there are only 6 buses A DAY here lol !

MercilessKiller

I have no advice for the tread, but merely want to wish the OP good luck!

furrypolka

Good letter, the dealer is completely wrong when he says that you can't pursue him under the Sale of Goods Act *unless you bought the car on Hire Purchase*

I would suggest that if you have not bought the car on HP, you let your local Trading Standards know about this practice of telling people that they have no rights under SoGA, as they may need to be advised.

If you have bought on HP however, the legislation is totally different and I will advise you on this if this is the case.