just stop all benefits.

grizzly1911

The benefit system is a sympton not the cause of the problem.

coastline

grizzly1911 wrote: »

The benefit system is a sympton not the cause of the problem.

Full employment...say half a million unemployed... hasn't been seen for nearly 50 years..
All governments have juggled the figures since to keep the dole numbers down...well below 2-3 million...they even split the claimants between signing on and claiming money..
Sickness benefit stands at 3m...yet we are told we are healthier and living longer...
Those at Uni has reached 2m....add this all up with early retired folk...and we have over 8m people under 65 yo....theres no work to go around..
Welfare payments are bound to be a large chunk of government spend...so the government have decided to have a go at it..

ukcarper

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Winter Fuel Benefit was brought in to acknowledge the disproportionate increase in energy costs for those on limited incomes well above that covered by RPI increases in basic pension and benefits. It was not politically acceptable to simply increase pensions to reflect this. Reducing this benefit would cause just as many problems as leaving it in place or increasing it.

I do think that this particular universal benefit should be taxed though.

These universal benefits are not index linked and are not cast in stone.

Bus passes are a godsend for many with no other way of getting out for shopping and hospital visits. They also help keep insurance costs down for us all bey keeping less safe people off the road.

One thing we must not forget is that "rich" pensioners do continue to contribute to taxes both via income tax and consumption tax through VAT and like my neighbour through their biennial car purchase and exotic holidays..

People just over pension credit are disproportionally affected by fuel price increases as much as those just below so like you I think it should be made taxable.

With the bus pass how many bus routes would cease to exist or have to be subsidised in some other way if the money from bus passes was lost .

You don’t have to be a rich pensioner to pay Tax direct or indirect

　

concerned43

You see how many people are playing right into the government hands - first lets wraps all of those on benefits and call them all scroungers and this will make the cuts on the welfare bill more palatable, then we will attack the pensioners, those who take the state pension, pension credit, fuel allowance, bus pass etc. and call them a drain on society, we will get the public behind us then start to cut their benefits....do you see where this is heading?
Lastly, in all my time working for CAB i have never seen anyone on benefits that does not want to work, they have came across many barriers to work - too many to mention! with regards to girls getting pregnant so they can get benefits and a house - don't make me laugh!! they do not get a house unless they are homeless and are treated just like all the other homeless i.e. if you are intentionally homeless - tough luck, if you are unintentionally homeless then we will put you in a rat invested, filthy B&B where you will remain for months, maybe even years!!!

Forever

concerned43 wrote: »

You see how many people are playing right into the government hands - first lets wraps all of those on benefits and call them all scroungers and this will make the cuts on the welfare bill more palatable, then we will attack the pensioners, those who take the state pension, pension credit, fuel allowance, bus pass etc. and call them a drain on society, we will get the public behind us then start to cut their benefits....do you see where this is heading?
Lastly, in all my time working for CAB i have never seen anyone on benefits that does not want to work, they have came across many barriers to work - too many to mention! with regards to girls getting pregnant so they can get benefits and a house - don't make me laugh!! they do not get a house unless they are homeless and are treated just like all the other homeless i.e. if you are intentionally homeless - tough luck, if you are unintentionally homeless then we will put you in a rat invested, filthy B&B where you will remain for months, maybe even years!!!

I completely agree with you 100%.

The 'scrounger' tag is all just government propaganda whilst the richest of our society are getting richer and richer.

And everything is aimed at keeping them rich too. Such as legal tax loop holes for the rich to minimise tax payments, the UK being a part of the the EU gravy train partly due to the future career prospects of the MPs, MPs fiddling their expenses, companies awarded contracts for the government because of deals made behind the scenes such as with the infamously crooked A4e, our tax money now paying for people to work in supermarkets in the name of mandatory work placements for the unemployment which is displacing paying jobs whilst helping supermarkets generate profits, etc etc.

Even the incredible inequality gap of bankers taking super sized bonuses whilst the low-waged need benefits now just to keep a roof over their heads shows where our economy is heading.

Whether you like it or not, we are all getting poorer whilst the rich get richer and yet all I ever see are people bickering over the benefit system.

grizzly1911

coastline wrote: »

Full employment...say half a million unemployed... hasn't been seen for nearly 50 years..

Sounds right.

About the same length of time that Governments have lied to the general public and slowly eroded the countries assets and mortgaged us all ( well the vast majority of us) to the hilt.

mazza111

I didn't say it should only be those on PC that get it btw. I just said they are already means testing for it Yes I think it's shocking that someone who's just over doesn't get any help and ends up worse off than those who are getting. I'm talking of those pensioners who really don't need it. Say for example, a former MP or PM sitting with thousands or hundreds of thousands in the bank, do they really need the winter heating allowance?

I'm not talking about wee Mrs Smith who's £1 over the limit for getting PC who has to pay rent because of this, I'm talking about those who are extremely well off getting it.

ukcarper

mazza111 wrote: »

I didn't say it should only be those on PC that get it btw. I just said they are already means testing for it Yes I think it's shocking that someone who's just over doesn't get any help and ends up worse off than those who are getting. I'm talking of those pensioners who really don't need it. Say for example, a former MP or PM sitting with thousands or hundreds of thousands in the bank, do they really need the winter heating allowance?

I'm not talking about wee Mrs Smith who's £1 over the limit for getting PC who has to pay rent because of this, I'm talking about those who are extremely well off getting it.

The argument is that to set an additional means testing point would cost more than it saves so by making it taxable people getting under £10,000 a year would get it all and those above would have it reduced and it shouldn't cost any more to implement.

mumblub

Op you seem t have a problem with most of the nation...from your world it seems to be ..chav culture.scum culture..people at work (daring to waste your precious time wanting help) ..btw have you not made up a name for them yet? Then theres olympics (how dare gov waste your money on it) then theres people who do work (another how dare they earn 25k and get same tax relief)..you must be 2ft tall from the burden your shoulders are carrying ..cause YOUR taxes alone pay for the goverments bills.....happy judging/moaning to you sir...btw change your name to the_high_horse

mazza111

ukcarper wrote: »

The argument is that to set an additional means testing point would cost more than it saves so by making it taxable people getting under £10,000 a year would get it all and those above would have it reduced and it shouldn't cost any more to implement.

I don't think it would be that expensive, the software should be there to do it. Just get everyone to apply, set limits for one, change limits for another. Ok, granted if they were going to check every one's paperwork, then yes I could see it. But if they made it a benefit that had to be applied for rather than an automatic right.. I don't know. I really don't have all the answers. I just find it really unfair that again the under 25s are being targeted, who may have worked for several years and then find themselves out of work, can't get HB, when well off pensioners still get this allowance every year.