Very complicated, anyone who can help?

Janep

Newbie on here
Hi, I have read most posts on here and my circumstances are a little different.
I have been claiming tax credits as single for 4 years with no problem, this July I put in a new claim and received a letter saying we believe Mr xxx lives with you, can you phone us.

Ok, so I phoned them, and explained yes Mr Xxx does live here he is my housemate, I have put this info on the forms the last 4 years.

A few years ago I was raped then a few months later my husband died, I was terrified to be on my own, Mr XX was a family friend, he had known me and my parents for about 20 years, so he slept on my settee for a few months, I owned my own two bedroomed flat and had two young children, thus situation was no good, so we decided that I would sell my flat and jointly we would buy a bigger house as housemates.

I sold my flat and he got a mortgage and we were able to buy a four bedroomed two bathroomed, two living room house, perfect! The mortgage was in his name only ( so if he ever defaulted on payment I would never be responsible for this) and I had a deed of trust drawn up to protect my £70000.

We all had our own bedrooms, we had a bathroom and living room each. We worked out the bills and pay these separately, he pays council tax and water I pay, gas, electric, tv license and home insurance and we split phone cable when bill comes in.

This has worked out great, I hardly ever see him as he is a workaholic, but I feel safe as there is a man living in the house.

Anyway, HMRC, asked me to send in all bills, which I did, they then said we are financially associated via joint account, so I explained yes, we have a joint account for household emergencies (boiler breakdown, roof repair etc), which we both pay £15 a week into and we both need to sign together to draw money out, this has not been used since we set it up, a few months later, We decided if one of us was on holiday and the other needed to draw out money in an emergency they could,nt, so we set up a web based joint account with a cash-flow of £1000 and a joint current account, so if boiler was to break down on a Sunday, either one of us were able to transfer funds from web account to current account and access this with a card anytime of day or night. These accounts have never been used.

I have received a letter today stating They believe we are in a relationship and I have supplied insufficient evidence! I will receive a letter shortly yo pay back any overpaid!

I have always been honest and upfront about our living situation and I am unsure what to do next.

Advice please, and thanks for reading such a long post

PippaGirl_2

Tbh with the amount of financial connections you have I'd be stunned if they didn't decide that to all intents and purposes you are a couple.

That said, you were always open and honest on all forms so I would dispute any overpayment as not being your fault. But I think I am right in saying that with the DWP they can't reclaim if it was their mistake but HMRC can so check that.

rogerblack

What you have done is completely legal, and problematic.
While what you have done is legal, you can presumably see how hard it is from the outside to tell the difference between you and a 'normal' couple.

You will need to appeal the decision, and hope the tribunal believes you.

Do others see you as a couple?
What would your friends say if asked?
See 'living together investigations'.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/fraud-guide/

There is _required_ to be some sort of thing beyond merely living in the house together - a reasonable expectation of a continuing relationship that goes beyond mere friendship.
But, proving this does not exist may be almost impossible, especially if neither of you are in other relationships.

Kimitatsu

My recommendation would be to get some representation either from the CAB or a welfare rights adviser. You have done nothing wrong and in fact have gone out of your way to make sure it is above board BUT you will have to appeal all of this and show that you live separately.

As long as you you can show that you have separate sleeping arrangements, separate areas for food etc and don't do your normal everyday things together such as shopping etc then that is usually the yardstick by which the govt depts go.

PippaGirl_2

Trouble is how do you show that? It will just be their word and Tribunals go on the balance of probability and the credibility they give the person speaking. I think this could go either way but definitely needs to be appealed.

Janep

Hi

We have separate sleeping, living and bathroom areas, we do not eat, shop, socialise together.

I have had to cheap 'The Sun' holiday forms which clearly state 1 adult and 2 children, is this the type of thing I would need to send in with my appeal?

I also have had the same letter last year about Mr X living here, phoned them last year to explain the same situation as this year and received a letter last year saying we do not need to amend your claim, so obviously I was believed last year, but not this year.

Would this help in my appeal?

jamespir

its ridiculous that the dwp cannot fathom that men and women can live together and not be in a relationship
yet if a gay or lesbian couple want to claim benefits they are treated as sepereate claimers

Icequeen99

Janep wrote: »

Hi

We have separate sleeping, living and bathroom areas, we do not eat, shop, socialise together.

I have had to cheap 'The Sun' holiday forms which clearly state 1 adult and 2 children, is this the type of thing I would need to send in with my appeal?

I also have had the same letter last year about Mr X living here, phoned them last year to explain the same situation as this year and received a letter last year saying we do not need to amend your claim, so obviously I was believed last year, but not this year.

Would this help in my appeal?

I think that is a point you need to raise in your appeal. I would collect evidence of everything you can think of.

You should list all financial connections and explain each of them.
Then I would use bank statements to show the various payments e.g. you pay £15 into x account and that account hasn't been used.

What about things like your children's school? Is he down as a contact person?

Can you get any statements from anyone you know who has a good position that would seem reliable to confirm your situation?

Do you any have solicitor's correspondence to confirm the reason you had the deed of trust drawn up?

What about wills? Will they help show that you are not leaving property to each other etc....

IQ

Janep

He is not down as a person of contact with the school, I have worked at Jobcentreplus for 4 years and everyone knows I am single. I do not have a will (not too sure about him).

I am worried that if they agreed my circumstances last year and do not this year will they be able to chase me for last year also!!

I have until 19 October to appeal and am seeing CAB shortly, do I write down everything in the appeal ie, the circumstances why we are living in the same house, the deed of trust drawn up, and is the appeal seen by the same people who gave the first decision or a different set of people?

PippaGirl_2

Janep, I am sure that last year's decision will definitely help.

The DWP for one have strange ideas of what constitues a relationship. Previously when I separated from my ex and he left the house leaving me with the children and his father who'd lived with us for years after having a CVA the DWP decided my fil was my partner as I cooked for him and we ate together! Fortunately I appealed it and the reconsideration saw common sense but they have a set formulae even if they think/know you are not partners! Stupid.

Icequeen99

Janep wrote: »

He is not down as a person of contact with the school, I have worked at Jobcentreplus for 4 years and everyone knows I am single. I do not have a will (not too sure about him).

I am worried that if they agreed my circumstances last year and do not this year will they be able to chase me for last year also!!

I have until 19 October to appeal and am seeing CAB shortly, do I write down everything in the appeal ie, the circumstances why we are living in the same house, the deed of trust drawn up, and is the appeal seen by the same people who gave the first decision or a different set of people?

Yes, I would include everything. Normally when I represent people in these appeals I just do so by letter. Alternatively, you can fill in WTC/AP with the basic points and then say see the attached letter for full details.

I think I would highlight the fact that they accepted it last year.

IQ