OH HELP - furniture order 6 days ago online, company is saying I pay 25%

Fosterdog

neilmcl wrote: »

They may not be able to "penalise" the OP but they are entitled to charge a reasonable collection/return fee if stated in their T&Cs, which may also be payable even if the OP refuses delivery.

True but they can't necessarily deduct the amount from any refund, the full refund should be given regardless and they can then choose to pursue OP. If they do that and it goes to court, OP will have evidence that they had 7 weeks to cancel delivery of the order and by choosing not to do so they haven't mitigated their losses and a judge would quite likely side with OP. It also has to be a reasonable fee, if OP can find some proof that other courier companies are a lot cheaper than £60 then it's not a reasonable amount.

As an example I purchased a new corner suit a few weeks ago and the delivery cost was £25 and it was with a local courier, therefore it would be the same cost to return it so a £60 charge would be unreasonable when it can be done for £25.

unholyangel

neilmcl wrote: »

They may not be able to "penalise" the OP but they are entitled to charge a reasonable collection/return fee if stated in their T&Cs, which may also be payable even if the OP refuses delivery.

From OFT's guidance:
Can a consumer cancel an order before they receive the
goods or where goods are lost in transit?
3.35 Yes. Where the DSRs give consumers rights to cancel, this right is
unconditional. If consumers cancel before they have received the
goods you must refund the total price of the goods, including any
delivery charges. Consumers who have cancelled under the DSRs
may refuse to accept delivery of the goods. Refusal in such a
situation cannot be treated as a breach of contract.



Providing OP notifies them of their intent to cancel in a durable form, they can't charge them a damn thing. The effect of cancellation under regulation 10 is to treat the contract as if it never existed.



As for the 25% charge, even if DSRs didnt apply.....the term may be an unfair one if the 25% isnt a genuine pre-estimate of their loss. Nor do they have any entitlement to money that they could save by mitigating their losses (another customer for example).

unholyangel

Fosterdog wrote: »

True but they can't necessarily deduct the amount from any refund, the full refund should be given regardless and they can then choose to pursue OP. If they do that and it goes to court, OP will have evidence that they had 7 weeks to cancel delivery of the order and by choosing not to do so they haven't mitigated their losses and a judge would quite likely side with OP. It also has to be a reasonable fee, if OP can find some proof that other courier companies are a lot cheaper than £60 then it's not a reasonable amount.

As an example I purchased a new corner suit a few weeks ago and the delivery cost was £25 and it was with a local courier, therefore it would be the same cost to return it so a £60 charge would be unreasonable when it can be done for £25.

You were right the first time. If a consumer cancels under the DSRs, refusal of delivery cannot be taken as a breach of contract.


I think neil may have been referring to if the consumer just refuses delivery without actually cancelling under the DSRs (ie expressing your intent to cancel in a durable form).

arcon5

gener8or wrote: »

About a year or so ago I ordered a bed for my daughter but cancelled it before delivery, but as it had been released to the carriers they charged me £40 for the delivery as per T&C's.

Told them they couldn't under DSR they disagreed. Took it to trading standards they agreed with me and told me to write a letter but still no refund.

Took it to my credit card company who sided with the retailer and refused to charge back the £40 and said I may a legal right but its not up to them to enforce it.

Rang Capital Once Executive Office who listened but agreed with disputed team that its not their problem, but as they didn't want to loose me as a customer put £40 credit on my account as a gesture of goodwill.

They can deduct the true cost of goods being returned to them. So in your case, if delivery was already in progress it's reasonable for you to pay for their restoration back to the retailer

neilmcl

unholyangel wrote: »

Providing OP notifies them of their intent to cancel in a durable form, they can't charge them a damn thing. The effect of cancellation under regulation 10 is to treat the contract as if it never existed.

If the consumer fails to return the items or returns them at the seller's expense (which may apply here if the courier charges the seller for returning the items back following a refused delivery) then the seller can indeed charge the OP the direct cost of that return.

Taken from the actual legislation:

14--(1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).
.
.
.
(5) Subject to paragraphs (6) and (7), the supplier may make a charge, not exceeding the direct costs of recovering any goods supplied under the contract, where a term of the contract provides that the consumer must return any goods supplied if he cancels the contract under regulation 10 but the consumer does not comply with this provision or returns the goods at the expense of the supplier.

Fosterdog

You're still getting the wrong end of it though, delivery is not due for another seven weeks. If OP cancels now the delivery should not be made in the first place, OP should have their full refund by that time as it will be well over the 30 days allowed to refund the moneys owed.

If they still chose to deliver goods that were cancelled seven weeks prior to delivery then they will have to take the hit for any return/delivery refusal costs. The contract would have been null and void for seven weeks prior to attempted delivery so there would be no contract in place to allow them to charge for anything.

The only time the legislation you're quoting comes into play is if the goods have already been delivered or are already in transit when the contract in cancelled.

arcon5

No ones getting the wrong end of the stick and in sure in ops situation everybody can agree return postage shouldn't be applicable. It's just rid thread has got a little off topic

neilmcl

Fosterdog wrote: »

You're still getting the wrong end of it though, delivery is not due for another seven weeks. If OP cancels now the delivery should not be made in the first place, OP should have their full refund by that time as it will be well over the 30 days allowed to refund the moneys owed.

If they still chose to deliver goods that were cancelled seven weeks prior to delivery then they will have to take the hit for any return/delivery refusal costs. The contract would have been null and void for seven weeks prior to attempted delivery so there would be no contract in place to allow them to charge for anything.

The only time the legislation you're quoting comes into play is if the goods have already been delivered or are already in transit when the contract in cancelled.

I'm not suggesting otherwise, I was merely clarifying a general misconception that refusing delivery doesn't necessarily mean that the seller wouldn't have to pay the costs of return. In this case, and I must admit I missed the delivery timescales from the OP, no charges should apply.

unholyangel

neilmcl wrote: »

I'm not suggesting otherwise, I was merely clarifying a general misconception that refusing delivery doesn't necessarily mean that the seller wouldn't have to pay the costs of return. In this case, and I must admit I missed the delivery timescales from the OP, no charges should apply.

But the paragraph I quoted above states it is "If consumers cancel before they have received the goods". If you dont cancel before you receive them then obviously the contract still stands ergo you're responsible for the costs of returning IF you were told this in a durable form as part of your pre-contractual information.

Even forgetting the DSRs completely, if they dispatched an order that had been cancelled with appropriate notice, I don't see how they could justify that as mitigation of loss.