HELP - Tenants have overstayed their agreement!

ruggedtoast

I suspect now she's been told what she doesn't want to hear, the OP will not be seen in this thread again.

pmlindyloo

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I suspect now she's been told what she doesn't want to hear, the OP will not be seen in this thread again.

This wouldn't surprise me because so many people have replied without one iota of sympathy for the OP.

I am not condoning people who take on the role of LL and are not au fait with everything (no different from many LAs which LLs pay to do a proper job.)

But I do have sympathy for someone who wants their house back and has to go through the hoops because a family is trying to get a council house.

Whilst I do realise that there are not many council houses available and the local authorities are forced to penalise LLs in this way, that doesn't mean I have no sympathy for those who find themselves in this position.

Werdnal

pmlindyloo wrote: »

This wouldn't surprise me because so many people have replied without one iota of sympathy for the OP.

I am not condoning people who take on the role of LL and are not au fait with everything (no different from many LAs which LLs pay to do a proper job.)

But I do have sympathy for someone who wants their house back and has to go through the hoops because a family is trying to get a council house.

Whilst I do realise that there are not many council houses available and the local authorities are forced to penalise LLs in this way, that doesn't mean I have no sympathy for those who find themselves in this position.

TBH I have more sympathy with the tenants in this scenario (and I am a LL). OK, so I don't condone the "force me out so I can get a council house" strategy, but that is unfortunately encouraged by the dire lack of social housing and the council advice to tenants that unintentionally homeless makes them a priority for housing!

The LL may want their house back, and there are very simple measures they need to take to get it back - legally and correctly. Asking the tenants if they want to extend, then assuming that means they are going to leave, is not the way to do it. It appears the LL never gave the tenants any suggestion of wanting them out, until low and behold, the fixed term ends and OMG my tenants have overstayed! The point is they haven't, the tenants have done nothing wrong and are only guilty of perhaps working the system to get council housing - but if the system is flawed that is not the tenant's fault.

LL needs to gen up on their responsibilities. A simple issuing of correct notice, 2 months or more before the end of the fixed term and they could apply to court the day the FT ended - they could be well on the way to getting the tenants out and their property back. Instead they are here relating some "!!!! and bull" story about having other tenants waiting to move in, trying to make out the existing tenants are in the wrong.

As it is, an S21 issued now, will take atleast 2 months to expire (nearly 3 depending on the tenancy dates in question), plus court waiting list for a possession order - so perhaps OP better make plans to have their daughter living with well into the New Year!

pmlindyloo

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

I do have some sympathy for the OP, as I do for anyone who is the victim of dishonourable, deceptive people.

The tenants agreed to leave on a specific date, at their own instigation, and didn't even have the good grace to inform the landlord they planned to intended to renege on their own agreement for their own selfish needs until they were pursued on the matter.

It's not what was done that disappoints me; it's the way it was done.

Exactly, and we wonder why LLs/LAs issue a Section 21 at the beginning of the tenancy.

Not only a rude lack of communication from the tenants but also very poor service from the LAs who was being paid by the OP.

martindow

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

I do have some sympathy for the OP, as I do for anyone who is the victim of dishonourable, deceptive people.

The tenants agreed to leave on a specific date, at their own instigation, and didn't even have the good grace to inform the landlord they planned to intended to renege on their own agreement for their own selfish needs until they were pursued on the matter.

It's not what was done that disappoints me; it's the way it was done.

According to ther OP's account, the tenants did not give notice, they merely said they did not want to sign a new fixed term. The problem arose because the OP didn't appear to know what happens at the end of a fixed term.

franklee

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

The tenants agreed to leave on a specific date, at their own instigation, and didn't even have the good grace to inform the landlord they planned to intended to renege on their own agreement for their own selfish needs until they were pursued on the matter.

Perhaps you're thinking of another thread but in this thread the OP said it was themselves (the LL) who asked the tenant if they wanted to extend and the tenant said no. I've declined to extend myself and been on periodic tenancy for years (why pay agents fees every six months or so for doing little). Declining an extension is not the same as agreeing to leave. Of course all the extra detail you state may be on another thread if so can we have a link please?

From the OP:

pinkaholic88 wrote: »

Hi I rent out a property and use an agency to manage it for me. The current tenants rented it for 6 months only, half way through the 6 months I asked if they wanted to extended their term or not. They said no. It is a family of Man & Wife and 3 kids. They have supposedly split up as of 2 weeks ago and yesterday was the day they should have vacated the property.

pmlindyloo

franklee wrote: »

Perhaps you're thinking of another thread but in this thread the OP said it was themselves (the LL) who asked the tenant if they wanted to extend and the tenant said no. I've declined to extend myself and been on periodic tenancy for years (why pay agents fees every six months or so for doing little). Declining an extension is not the same as agreeing to leave. Of course all the extra detail you state may be on another thread if so can we have a link please?

From the OP:

We may be reading too much into what the OP has written here -all about semantics.

The OP said he asked them if they wanted to extend their term (already someone has turned this into 'sign a new fixed term')

We don't know exactly what the OP did say to the tenants. He may be using the 'extend their term' just on here. It may have been to 'do you want to stay on?'

We don't know.

From what I have got from the OP posting is that he expected them to go at the end of the fixed term.

Clearly there has been a total lack of communication here.

It seems that neither the tenants told the LA/LL what they intended to do (which I consider bad manners) nor the LA asked what the tenants wanted to do (which I consider poor service)

Anyway, that's why I have some sympathy for the OP.

After all the whole idea of employing a LA and paying them to do a job is to save yourself the hassle of doing it yourself.

Lavendyr

Think the critical questions here are:

1) Did the landlord (OP) issue a Section 21 to the tenants giving them notice to vacate the property?

2) Did the tenants give written notice to the landlord/agent that they would quit at the end of the fixed term?

If the answer to both of these questions is 'no' then neither one side nor the other has given notice to terminate the tenancy and the tenants cannot be at fault for continuing to stay in the property.

While the tenants would have had the right to leave at the end of the fixed term without notice, they would not have been obliged to do so.

OP, some clarification is needed here please in order to help you.

franklee

pmlindyloo wrote: »

We may be reading too much into what the OP has written here -all about semantics.

The OP said he asked them if they wanted to extend their term (already someone has turned this into 'sign a new fixed term')

We don't know exactly what the OP did say to the tenants. He may be using the 'extend their term' just on here. It may have been to 'do you want to stay on?'

We don't know.

From what I have got from the OP posting is that he expected them to go at the end of the fixed term.

Clearly there has been a total lack of communication here.

It seems that neither the tenants told the LA/LL what they intended to do (which I consider bad manners) nor the LA asked what the tenants wanted to do (which I consider poor service)

Anyway, that's why I have some sympathy for the OP.

After all the whole idea of employing a LA and paying them to do a job is to save yourself the hassle of doing it yourself.

None of your explanation equates to Eton Rifle's "The tenants agreed to leave on a specific date, at their own instigation, and didn't even have the good grace to inform the landlord they planned to intended to renege on their own agreement for their own selfish needs until they were pursued on the matter." which is the post I was objecting to unless it has posts elsewhere from the OP to back it up. Where is the tenant's own instigation? Where is the specific date the tenants agreed to leave? The default position is for the tenancy to become periodic unless something clear is done to prevent that. It seems nothing clear happened.

What we have the LL's instigation asking a confusing question (as common use for extending a term is to sign for another fixed term, certainly I would not equate that to the open ended nature of a periodic tenancy) and then a load of assumptions. Somehow Eton Rifle gets that to the T's being selfish and dishonourable, deceptive people. Let's be clear we are talking about a family moving home which is quite an upheaval.

Werdnal

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Exactly, and we wonder why LLs/LAs issue a Section 21 at the beginning of the tenancy.

Not only a rude lack of communication from the tenants but also very poor service from the LAs who was being paid by the OP.

Issuing S21 at the start of the tenancy is no longer valid until deposit protected and PI issued to tenant.

I too do not think the OP said anything about the tenants giving notice. Unless OP has not explained fully, or have chosen not to give the full facts, the tenants did not give any formal notice - written, verbal or otherwise. From the info given, it seems there was no date discussed for the tenants to actually leave, and the ASSUMPTION was made by LL/LA that tenants would be moving out at end of the fixed term. As I said in my earlier reply, LL is naive and agent incompetent for assuming this conversation meant the tenants were leaving at all.

Perhaps OP might be able to elaborate on the exact discussions, terms etc that went on at the time, which may have given rise to this misunderstanding. Either way, nothing in writing means no formal notice was apparently issued/received from either side, so tenancy continues ...