Anyone understand dual meters

Imnoexpert_2

I am having trouble with the scout hut electricity metering.

We are a 'commercial' customer and have recently had an extension and new meter - (and wife has become treasurer).

The pattern of use is that in the summer the kids are outside and in the winter the meetings start at 6pm for the little ones 1 night a week and 7pm for the older ones 3 nights a week.

We suspected things were wrong because the daytime meter reading is higher than the night. Our supplier tells us some meters record the (01 and 02) the other way round and we need to do some monitoring and see if there is a label on the meter (there isn't). On getting involved in this monitoring we noticed that the clock on the unit has been set back an hour (ie it says 6 o'clock when the current BST time is 7pm) when queried the supplier says this is in our favour but it isn't. I figure that provided the display clock is the same as the electronics which change the display of units we are being charged for an extra hour a day at the wrong (higher) daytime rate. It will of course be correct when the clocks go back.

I am surprised that a new electronic meter can be set an hour out by accident. Has it been done deliberately so it is correct during daylight saving time? The only rationale would be if the meter doesn't automatically adjust when the clocks change (but surely all modern equipment does?).

Can anyone help? Our supplier phone people would fit into the 'nice but dim' category and I doubt I could explain this too them.

Cardew

It is normal for the clock for changing from off-peak to daytime rates will be an hour out from BST.

Mine for example(in the Midlands) changes at 08:30 when on BST and 07:30 during the winter(GMT)

You are not being charged an extra hour because the clock(in my case) changes to cheap rate at 01:30 when on BST and 00:30 on GMT.

For most people this is an advantage, if you get up at, say, 07:00 you have 90 minutes on cheap rate to get breakfast, use appliances etc.

The newer meters are changed remotely, so always on the correct time.

[Deleted User]

meter will be at correct time in 3 weeks when the clocks go back. Your meter is one of the newer ones which shows the time. These types of meters, (probably an Ampy meter ) are always set at G.M.T. and dont have the capability to adjust automatically

Terrylw1

It depends on the meter, some will alter with GMT/BST changes.

However, most meters don't as this is a newer creation.

Industry data where the meter settings shows whether the supplier has chosen the times based on GMT or BST. In the older style, it will go out of line for the other period.

Some distributors even alter their radio teleswitch signal to match the time to allow the older style to work.

Imnoexpert_2

Thanks for replying so helpfully

Cardew
I get it now. The time of the actual 'metering change' is controlled elsewhere in the unit so could be set to apply at any clock time.

So apart from standing over the meter to see at what time the change -over occurs is there a way of finding out when it happens?

As this is a scout hut used mainly during evenings and weekends and sometimes in the day but almost never in the morning we won't gain anything in the morning, but if there was an error during winter evenings when we use a lot of light and heat it would be costly.

The meter was installed in the last couple of months so I'm surprised it wasn't the remotely switched type.

I don't really understand the switching times on your meter.

Terry and Sas thanks.

I don't mind if the clock is GMT, BST, or switchable I just want to make sure that I'm being charged the right price (or if it's wrong it's in my favour).

You and Cardew seem to know about this stuff so can I ask if it is custom and practice for the supplier to set it so it errs in the customers favour.?

Cardew

I think you have misunderstood the effect of the change from BST to GMT on an Economy 7 tariff.

From your perspective it will have no effect at all. It simply means that that the switching time to off-peak rates will be one hour later in the summer(BST). however as this occurs in the early hours of the morning - in my case at 00:30am in winter to 01:30am in summer - it won't affect any Scout activity(unless things have changed from my day!!!)

In fact I don't understand why you are on an Economy 7 tariff at all - assuming the hut doesn't have overnight heating by storage heaters.

On Economy 7 you pay a premium, over a single rate 24/7 tariff, on all the 17 hours 'daytime' consumption and you will use very little in the 7 hours off-peak period.

The changing times vary across the country(not by supplier) and you can find out your timing by asking your supplier. However clocks can be fast or slow, so to be absolutely sure you do need to have a late night/early morning vigil to see what time the clock changes.

Imnoexpert_2

I am even more confused now.

I never mentioned economy 7. As I understand it I am a commercial account not residential. The deal we have just signed up to gives me dual rate. Cheap during evenings and weekends and expensive during weekday daytime. This should be the best for us . The threshold time is 7pm which is when it gets cheap. because most of the activity is from 6pm-9pm a one hour error in charging would mean a third of the usage being priced wrongly.

I think I will have to keep visiting the hut and watching the meter.

Mistakes do happen though. We are defniitely correct that our meter is reversed and is missing a sticker that tells us this so that a meter reader (amateur or professional) would record daytime units as night and vice versa.

misterbarlow

that is evening/weekend tariff then...
off peak 1900-0700 and 1900fri to 0700mon.

there is no reomtely switched type..
they either have an inbuilt clock, or receive a radio signal which just has the time in it, and the inbuilt timing settings of the device then tell it whether to switch or not...

if you have a clock in the lcd display then its the inbuilt type and will switch itself..
there should be a flashing digit (01, 02 etc) to show which rate the meter is active on..

Imnoexpert_2

Thanks Mr Barlow.

What you say is spot on. I do have the clock in the LCD and the 01,02 display.

If I read this right then the meter will show the correct usage as this is built into it. The only task is (as we have done) to confirm which use is 01 and which is 02.

I think we will still check which is lit just before and just after 7pm and at the evenings. I'll report back.

Terrylw1

OK, since MisterB has confirmed you've got a time switch metet, its very easy to get the times as they are stored on Elexon's website and accessible to all.

Contact your supplier and they can tell you by checking which region you are in, obtaining your Standard Settlement Configuration (SSC) data item which tells them how your meter is set and they compare those to the data files on that website (which they receive monthly).

They can also confirm if the times on that site are GMT or BST. This is an uncommon question so you will need someone a bit more clued up.

If you get your SSC, I can find you this info off Elexon's site if you need it. The SSC is a generic number you share with everyone else with the same settings so it doesn't identify you in anyway and is not used in a switching process so its safe.

The problem meters are the radio teleswitch meters as there is no national document of their time settings.

In terms of the customer favour question, its not part of the equation as the settings are introduced into the market via an independent change management process and all suppliers & distributors receive a broadcast showing proposed new settings. When the settings are created, they have to state whether they are GMT or BST.