Attacked at work, not a criminal matter, who's responsible then?

dickydonkin

Kaz2904 wrote: »

RIDDOR was completed the night of the incident.
Dickydonkin, this assault didn't happen in a nursing home, it was in hospital.

Nursing home, hospital, whatever - as long as the injury was connected with work, then the legislation still applies.

Out of interest, on what grounds was the incident reported under Riddor 'on the night of the incident' because at that time, there would be no need to as the fractured ribs had not been determined?

An assault in itself is not reportable where an employee is the victim - it is any resulting 'major injury' as defined in the regulations that is.

I wonder if it was only an internal/incident report that was completed - not one that was submitted online to the HSE contact centre and if that is the case, then the company could potentially be in breach of those regs.

Kaz2904

The clinical site manager completed the RIDDOR on the night of the incident because the NA went to ED on the night of the incident. The police were also informed that night. A trust incident form was completed, and the security team also had to complete their log as they were called out.
I know that the RIDDOR was done because I said after she had been to ED the second time that we would have to complete one and was told it had been done at the first instance.
The reason I mentioned that it was a hospital not nursing home was in response to a PP's comments which inferred that they had misread the place being a nursing home and that it would result in the patient being moved. None of which was the case.

dickydonkin

Kaz2904 wrote: »

The clinical site manager completed the RIDDOR on the night of the incident because the NA went to ED on the night of the incident. The police were also informed that night. A trust incident form was completed, and the security team also had to complete their log as they were called out.
I know that the RIDDOR was done because I said after she had been to ED the second time that we would have to complete one and was told it had been done at the first instance.
The reason I mentioned that it was a hospital not nursing home was in response to a PP's comments which inferred that they had misread the place being a nursing home and that it would result in the patient being moved. None of which was the case.

There was no need to report the incident immediately as (at the time) the incident did not come under the remit of the regulations.

There is a time limit of 15 days to report a major injury and I would always advise to wait and see what the outcome of any medical diagnosis is to determine if the incident is reportable or otherwise.

Tiddlywinks

The patient lacked mental capacity - that is a very relevant fact. As is the fact that the patient had a condition which might lead to him becoming violent.

I fundamentally disagree that this is a police matter - there was no intent to harm, no intent to assault and no mental capacity to make informed decisions.

Your friend's employer has a responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent injury and there should have been an appropriate, patient specific risk assessment completed. What did this direct as to the handling of the patient?

As to your friend wanting to contact the family... this is truly despicable... IMO driven by the wish for revenge and not to get the truth 'out there'. If the family has made a formal complaint about their relative's treatment then all facts will be considered as part of the investigation - that's it! What right has your friend to contact the family? She would be breaching data protection handling requirements to even obtain contact information.

Finally, regarding the holiday, she was fit to travel - if she felt that she wasn't then she should have claimed on her travel insurance - end of! She went willingly on that holiday... how do you suppose she can prove her lack of 'enjoyment'?

Frankly, your friend needs to start taking some responsibilty for her own life and work and should make it her business to know how to deal with these situations and make informed choices - not rely on her friend to run her life. Sorry if that offends.

Kaz2904

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

The patient lacked mental capacity - that is a very relevant fact. As is the fact that the patient had a condition which might lead to him becoming violent.

I fundamentally disagree that this is a police matter - there was no intent to harm, no intent to assault and no mental capacity to make informed decisions.

Your friend's employer has a responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent injury and there should have been an appropriate, patient specific risk assessment completed. What did this direct as to the handling of the patient?

As to your friend wanting to contact the family... this is truly despicable... IMO driven by the wish for revenge and not to get the truth 'out there'. If the family has made a formal complaint about their relative's treatment then all facts will be considered as part of the investigation - that's it! What right has your friend to contact the family? She would be breaching data protection handling requirements to even obtain contact information.

Finally, regarding the holiday, she was fit to travel - if she felt that she wasn't then she should have claimed on her travel insurance - end of! She went willingly on that holiday... how do you suppose she can prove her lack of 'enjoyment'?

Frankly, your friend needs to start taking some responsibilty for her own life and work and should make it her business to know how to deal with these situations and make informed choices - not rely on her friend to run her life. Sorry if that offends.

Actually, just because the patient suffers from dementia, does not mean that he lacks capacity. It just makes it very hard to prove when he does or does not have capacity.

I'm glad that you disagree that this is a police matter. The intent to harm was there when he went to headbut the registered nurse and when he kicked the NA, not once but twice in the chest fracturing her ribs.
As has been decided by the solicitor who looked at the case, the trust were not negligent in their actions.

My friend has not asked the police to contact the patient or the family. The police have asked her permission to tell the wife about her injury. She is not after revenge against the family but what she doesn't want is her name besmirched all around the town by the family which is what is happening.
Finally, regarding the holiday. She was fit to FLY. That was what she had to get permission for from her insurers and the flight co. She was not fit to go on any of the roller coasters at the theme parks which she had paid a hell of a lot of money for and was fit enough to go on before she was ASSAULTED at work.
As a friend, I am merely doing what most friends would do. I am exploring an avenue which I know about (the MSE forums) to help my friend as she has her hands full with other things relating to this incident. Being friends, we look out for each other.
None of us knew how to deal with the serious injury of a staff member because we have never been in that situation before. We know all of the policies etc and we know what to do when someone has been seriously injured at work but we haven't had to do both at the same time. Neither have the police obviously because they are not proceding correctly.

I'm glad you know far more about this subject than I would ever wish to know and I'm pleased you are able to feel so sanctimonious and judgemental. Let's hope you are able to keep that up should anyone you care for ever be assaulted by someone with a mental illness.
Sorry if that offends.

Uncertain

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

The patient lacked mental capacity - that is a very relevant fact.

Somehow I doubt you are qualified to make that judgement. Even if you are it is hard to see how you make it without seeing the patient and their medical history. Few reliable diagnosis are made based on third hand accounts on an internet forum.

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree that this is a police matter - there was no intent to harm, no intent to assault and no mental capacity to make informed decisions.

You don't know that. It MAY be that is the conclusion that is reached after a proper examination by qualified people in which case the patient has a valid defence.

LondonDiva

Your friend needs to tak ea deep breath and start thinking rationally about the best way to get what she claims she wants.

She needs to write / email her manager, HR and head of risk /incident reporting to set out her concerns about the incident and ask for a copy of the incident report and whatever else they have setting out the actions arising. She also needs to ask the HR and risk team for a copy of the policy for supporting staff involved with an incident and ask for a referral to OH if she feels that their support would be helpful to help her identify and support or training.

Once she has this and understands how the trust is responding to the assault, she can then take logical decisons. To do otherwise is a bit silly really, as any legal action will probably need access to the incident report to suceeed.

likelyfran

Does your friend work directly for the NHS trust and how long has she been working for them? With all the problems she has had subsequent to the attack, she might be able to take 6 months off work - due to illness - and receive full pay for the duration. This might be some compensation/recovery time for her.
I've known at least 2 long-time NHS workers take a full paid 6 months off for 1) injured wrist 2) twisted back from pushing a trolley. By all accounts they both did not need all that time but took full advantage of the fact that the option was presented to them. (taking the P actually in my opinion and I knew them both).
It sounds like your friend may be justified in doing it due to all the problems she has had/is having.

Kaz2904

Yes my friend does work for the NHS. She doesn't want to take the full 6 months off, she wants to be back at work because she misses it/us. She enjoys her job (as do we all) and we have a very close team.
I hope she's better soon

thegirlintheattic

Holiday - she should have not gone and claimed on her insurance. She went, no one is going to compensate her for that.

Why is she still off work 5 weeks later? I had a day off work for broken ribs (so I could be diagnosed), then went to work on painkillers. The pain went around the 4 1/2 - 5 week mark. Surely she could do some of her duties with the broken ribs.

Was she trained? Did the employer try to mitigate the risk? If so not negligent.

In any case, she needs to get herself in a union, although they will probably not handle this incident because she wasn't a member when it happened.

When she gets called in for the attendance meeting surely she will have the fit note and they will realise it is an isolated incident. It should not be a problem unless she has had lots of time off besides this incident.