Roof terrace without planning pension

Really_worried

Can anybody help us with this?
We moved into our first apartment on this small council estate in 1979 and in 1991 moved into our current 3rd floor apartment and bought it in 1999.

There is a small council owned house that abuts our building it is three stories and the flat roof is level with our apartment. There was never a roof terrace and the railings are only decorative and two feet high (this is a Victorian mansion estate).

At the front of the building the roof is less than ten feet away and anyone on it can see directly into our living room! As you walk towards the back it goes in a diagonal line and is less than six feet from our bathroom window so all privacy is lost! Then at the back it abuts our house and there is a small sloping roof that sits immediately under my daughter's bedroom window. Anyone standing at the back of the roof can see directly into her room.

The lease of the house was bought by the then tenant in 2000 and when we were on holiday she punched a hole in the roof, put in a trap door and started using it as a roof terrace. This was done without any consultation with neighbours or council planning permission. It took us two years and many visits, discussions, provision of evidence and finally, when she put up a fence that blocked out our light, the council forced her to take it down and barred her from using the roof but did not make her remove the trap door.

The roof was not used again but when she sold on the lease she advertised the roof and the new neighbours thought they could use it. The roof was in a bad state of repair and they made it safe again but after discussions with us and shown the letters from the council they did not use the roof for the five odd years they were there.

Then in late 2010 they sold the lease and the new leaseholders started to put storage boxes on the roof. We spoke to them on the day they first did this and was told by them that it was a temporary measure as they had very little storage, I pointed out that there are five open spaces around the property that are for their use only - a front garden, a small balcony outside the front bedroom window, a large paved front path, a slim path and side entrance and a small back garden, but they said it was temporary until cupboards were built inside and refused to move them. They are still there....!

Then they started to build raised earth beds on the roof with a full irrigation system and planted. We approached them again but they refused to stop using the roof and said their lease said they could!
After the storage was put on the roof we told the council but nothing happened and when the 'garden' started appearing we complained again but nothing happened.

The leaseholders are continually out on the roof, they 'garden' constantly outside our living room window and we now cannot sit by our own window as we feel that they are watching us. In fact they can see right through our living space and out onto our own balcony, and on at least two occasions when our daughter and my husband have been sitting out there they have looked up and these people have been just looking straight at them!

At this point we wrote to and phoned the council and finally someone came to see for themselves. The estate manager was appalled by what she saw and said that the council plans for the property do not have a roof terrace on them so it should not be used. she also, apologised for it taking so long to act and went immediately and told these neighbours they had to stop using the roof. She was also concerned about the irrigation system as they drilled through the victorian wooden panelling, again with out permission. They did not use the roof for about a week but are back there again!

The bottom line is that the roof does not have planning permission it has not been used for over four years. They have been told not to use it at all so how can we fight this? We are at a loss of what to do next and we don't have a lot of money to fight it in court ourselves. What rights do we have ? And can we force the council to take action?...

Please please can someone advise us?

holly_hobby

Court route would be the only suggestion I can give (and probably what you've already considered).

Have you had any legal consultations over the yrs re this issue ?

H

BitterAndTwisted

Now that the Council and the estate manager have become involved these are the parties who should be made aware of what's going on and tackling it.

Just get writing your letters.

If that roof hasn't been adequately strengthened they may find that they won't be able to use it at all: either as a terrace or a roof to keep the rain out.

Fire_Fox

Welcome! Contact the freeholder and make them aware of the situation, this may well be breaching the covenants in the long lease. Could be a fire risk, collapse risk from the extra weight, has already damaged the structure of the building, could be making certain risks uninsurable.

Also contact Planning and Building Control at the council. You may need to report this repeatedly to the Estate Manager, they are not psychic and may well be taking action behind the scenes. It takes time to research the legal implications and different departments do not always work together so don't think of the council as one entity. Do everything in writing, consider including photographs.

If anyone is staring in your daughters bedroom call the police immediately.

Really_worried

Thank you all for your help. We have done everything you all suggested but not the courts. We were trying to get it sorted out amicably, after all having lived in the same place for 33years we know most of our neighbour extremely well Andre majority are reasonable and we sort out problems together.

It is so disconcerting to think that when living on the third floor when you look out of your window you see people... If it was the ground floor you could expect it - although then there would be a fence between gardens/terraces.

I hadn't thought about the police aspect really (maybe I am too trusting)but after discussing this with my husband he has said that he has seen that the male often stands at the back of the roof 'looking' at the view across London. Maybe I will ask him to warn him off next time he sees him

doing this and take photos rather than running straight to the police, but we will make yet a mother report to the council indicating this too.

So Thank you all again. It is so nice to feel that we have moral support out there!

Fire_Fox

Don't warn him off, that is taking the law into your own hands and setting up a personal dispute. The more formal reports you have the easier it is for the freeholder to point out to the leaseholders how many covenants they are breaching, the more personal altercations the easier for these tenants to claim your objections are personal.

princeofpounds

This is the responsibility of your freeholder to enforce, unless your neighbours start making a real nuisance of themselves (in the legal sense, not merely being annoying).

You in turn need to force your freeholder to move. The simplest solution would be to force them to seal up the trapdoor once they have removed the trespassing.

For more advice look at:
- lease-advice.org, which will help you understand how to manage your freeholder relationship.
- neighbours from hell forum
- gardenlaw forum (maybe less applicable in this instance but you might get some pointers)

The fact that your freeholder is probably the council has some minuses (they clearly forget or don't notice problems like this), there are pluses. You can force the issue through their complaints procedure, local councillor, local govt ombudsman perhaps.

Part of me would be tempted to suggest just getting out onto the terrace and sealing up the trapdoor yourself... But I have to admit that probably brings all sorts of complications! But maybe your freeholder can, if they own the roof.

A solicitor who *specialises* in these things wil be a great help.

Strapped

High pressure hose of water out your window should "discourage" any roof users (jk!)

olly300

Really_worried wrote: »

I hadn't thought about the police aspect really (maybe I am too trusting)but after discussing this with my husband he has said that he has seen that the male often stands at the back of the roof 'looking' at the view across London. Maybe I will ask him to warn him off next time he sees him doing this and take photos rather than running straight to the police, but we will make yet a mother report to the council indicating this too.

As well as calling the police on the non-emergency number - 101 - when you write letters to the council make it very clear that you think man is looking at your daughter as he is on the roof when your daughter is in her room and give her age. Also tell them the dates and approximate times you contacted the police. This should encourage the council to act quicker as they have a duty to protect minors.

planning_officer

If you have repeatedly complained to the Council and they are not acting very quickly - then contact your local Councillor and ask them to help you. They will take it up with the relevant Council officers. It's amazing how the involvement of a Councillor will very rapidly shoot your complaint up the queue (I speak from experience!)