Gas Fire and Refractory Ceramic Fibre RCF the new asbestos?

swift1_2

I've been looking to get a hole in the wall gas fire, was thinking of getting the Verine Fontana. As a parent of 2 toddlers, I was quite concerned about safety. I had one showroom tell me, these gas fires are so efficient you need a liner otherwise the fumes come into the room!:eek: as there is not enough heat for the fumes to go up the chimney! Another showroom told me that I don't need a liner and that the other guy was just trying to sell you a liner. (Fireplace industry not doing itself any favours!)

That dilemma aside, I decided to read the manual for the fire. It said the logs are made of Refractory Ceramic Fibre and should be handled with care so as not to generate dust, as it can irritate the skin and to also use a HEPA vacuum cleaner.

I decided to google RCF and found that the EU has classed RCF as a category 2 carcinogen!!:shocked: RCFs can cause the same life-threatening cancers as asbestos.

No doubt the fire industry will say the risk is very small etc

Has anyone else come across this?
Apparently the risk is from breathing in the fibres from these RCFs which can be generated by moving them etc - but when there in the fire with gas burner heating the crap out of'em - aren't fibres being released into the air?

this has got me really worried and put me off completely from gas fires. Think I'll just put an extra radiator in the room.

swift1_2

bump - anyone?

tlh858

If the fire is burning, any tiny amount of released fibres will go into the flue, not into the room. If they were to enter the room, then so will plenty of other toxic gases which will kill you in minutes.
As for moving them and deliberately inhaling the dust - just how often is that likely to happen?

Category 2 = possibly/probably carcinogens.
Category 1 = definitely a carcinogen. Such as benzene, which you inhale every time you fill your car with petrol.

rustyboy21

swift1 wrote: »

I've been looking to get a hole in the wall gas fire, was thinking of getting the Verine Fontana. As a parent of 2 toddlers, I was quite concerned about safety. I had one showroom tell me, these gas fires are so efficient you need a liner otherwise the fumes come into the room!:eek: as there is not enough heat for the fumes to go up the chimney! Another showroom told me that I don't need a liner and that the other guy was just trying to sell you a liner. (Fireplace industry not doing itself any favours!)

That dilemma aside, I decided to read the manual for the fire. It said the logs are made of Refractory Ceramic Fibre and should be handled with care so as not to generate dust, as it can irritate the skin and to also use a HEPA vacuum cleaner.

I decided to google RCF and found that the EU has classed RCF as a category 2 carcinogen!!:shocked: RCFs can cause the same life-threatening cancers as asbestos.

No doubt the fire industry will say the risk is very small etc

Has anyone else come across this?
Apparently the risk is from breathing in the fibres from these RCFs which can be generated by moving them etc - but when there in the fire with gas burner heating the crap out of'em - aren't fibres being released into the air?

this has got me really worried and put me off completely from gas fires. Think I'll just put an extra radiator in the room.

Lets take your points one by one.

Firstly '' to line or not to line''

The Fontana is a landscape High efficiency gas fire. It is Glass fronted and will most likely be circa 80% efficient. Some installers promote lining of flues for this type of product, as it can make the fire give off more heat, as you are not losing as much heat up your flue, as you would with an unlined flue. You are also not having to heat up a large chamber and pipe as much as the diameter of the flue liner is 125mm, compared to maybe 200mm + for an unlined flue.

IMO, The only person who can recommend lining a flue and who can be relied on, would be either a chimney sweep, who will conduct a smoke test on your flue , firstly to check if you have any cracks/leaks in your existing flue, or any factors, which will cause issues with the operating of your fire. The other person I would take note of is the manufacturer. They will have paid a lot of money to get the appliance passed , in order to get it through regs, so if they say line it, then line it.

First port of call would be a gas safe registered sweep, who has the installer guide to look at.

Now comes your point over RCF's.

These have been around for many, many years. They are used in Lots of industries, they are used specifically in gas fires, due to the ability to mould them into logs/coals/pebbles.

The articles you may have read which state health issues,are actually for when they are being manufactured, not for general usage. The issue is when the fibres are in their raw state and they have the possibility of being airborne. Once they have been mixed and moulded, they will be painted/dyed to the colour required. Any fibres will most likely be bound together and be of no issue.

When the fire is installed, it is recommended that you wash your hands after touching them, as they can be a skin irritant, like loft insulation. If you suffer from breathing problems, it is suggested you ventialte the room, or wear a mask, whilst fitting them.

In normal use of the fire, you wont be touching the ceramics, you should only need to touch the ceramics when the fire is being serviced and you wont be doing that anyway, the gas safe engineer will be. The other factor is that your choice of fire is glass fronted, any chance of any loose fibres being released is covered, as they will be sent up the flue by the draw from your chimney.

I do feel that you are worrying uneccesarily , the chances of being in contact with any significant quantity of RCF's in normal household use, will be so miniscule that you have a better chance at winning the lottery. You would also have to get rid of your oven, cool wall toasters, storage heaters, loft insulation etc out of your house too.

With regards to your fire, speak to a chimney specialist, they will check your flue for you . You may have got a stray, dodgy fireplace installer trying to get some more money out of you. We are not all like that.

swift1_2

Good solid advice there rustyboy.

Your points do provide some comfort and perhaps the risk is no more adverse than all the hoo-haa regarding mobile phone radiation frying our brains.

However, I have 2 small kids, as much as I would love a gas fire, the thought of a cancer causing agent, however small the risk, in the middle of my living room with kids playing, will never be too far from the back of my mind.

I have for now cancelled my gas fire order and will just add another radiator to the room for now.