Only Immigration can save us from Pensioners

yorkshirekev

The question as well is how can we find work for the (whatever % it is 30, 40?) who are only really suited to manual labour, picking etc? We have an economy where the options here are much narrower than they used to be. We have a population less willing to do this work as well.

The manufacturing base is crucial here, it enables a higher level of the population to play a useful role in the economy, contributing tax revenues etc. A lot of us at the lower reaches of the economy have to lower our expectations and understand that we will not receive what we put in the pot in terms of pensions etc, 40 or 50 years down the line.

Thinking of the future, (I'm not so much pushing 30, more getting out the Mr Sheen and getting it polished ready) what is going to be there as a safety net when we get older.

Heathcare - Chances are that it will be private by then. The NHS is getting beyond it's shelf life and the waves of public opinion are starting to turn against it slightly.

Housing - More local authority housing is getting sold without replacing, a trend that is likely to increase as time goes on.

Pensions - The pension age is only going to go one way and that is up. The truth is that the only way that my pension could be paid by the public purse is if a larger chunk of similarly aged folk expire whilst still at working age. For that to happen the pensionable age will have to rise further.

Work - Where are the jobs going to be for the people like myself who are not entrepreneurial, not particularly adept at climbing the ladder and not particularly inspired or inspiring? Benefits will not be here at their present levels forever. The will is not there.

Like I said earlier, expectations are going to have to be seriously checked. Entitlements will be gradually eroded as the country is likely to be unwilling and unable to pay for them. This is not a boo hiss baby boomer argument as they are mostly irrelevant as they are likely to be dead at this point and will be difficult to blame without some sort of occult communication.

The young and the formerly young will need to understand that competition is great and will generally increase in the workplace in time. The old certainties are looking gradually shakier and more uncertain. The world will be coming to compete on our doorstep for whatever jobs we go for. The chances are too that a sizeable amount will be smarter and harder workers too. The conditions of the course are what they are and we will need to adapt.

Personally I am not looking forward to the future as I doubt I am up to the challenge. Many however will relish it.

coastline

Theres millions of people in need...and wouldn't mind....work already in the UK...why do we need overseas help.
2.5m on the dole...yes as ever some don't want work..
2m at Uni...treble in a decade or so..
3m on sickness benefits...some would like work as they are capable of doing some tasks.
9.5m is the latest figures for the UK inactive count...adults between 16-65 yo....which will include early retired..??
Pension schemes have been used for a generation to allow workers to retire between 50-65 yo as it was an easy route for major companies to reduce their workforces..
So we have the dole figures constantly shown on TV...yet we have three times that figure available for work....just got to sort it out somehow..

Graham_Devon

Well Hamish is long gone, leaving the usual unanswered questions....erm....unanswered.

I think we can conclud eit's a rather silly idea, and that we have to think of something...soon. Whatever that something is, there will be a generation who don't like it. Depends who's expected to pay I guess.

Mr._Pricklepants

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well Hamish is long gone, leaving the usual unanswered questions....erm....unanswered.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I've answered it numerous times Graham.

You just choose to ignore it.

Patience is a virtue, but at some point, one just gives up.

There's more to life than forumonics, Graham.

Loughton_Monkey

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

There's more to life than forumonics, Graham.

There's also more to life than Graham.

homelessskilledworker

michaels wrote: »

Could we not outsource all the pensioners to Spain - lots of empty property, cheaper heating bills and lots of unemployed youngsters to do all those caring things.

Or even outsource or even Franchise our way of government anywhere around the world that wants it, rather than invade wait until we are asked:)
There are so many people around the world who want to come here and live like us, how about if we help them live like us and they can stay where they are, not such a daft idea,

Can you imagine what it would be like to live in countries such as the Congo, Niger or Tanzania where you did not have to worry about some trigger happy nutter trying to seperate you from your gonads and using them as earings, beautiful scenic countries with endless resources that would be paradise on earth if you could only govern them better.

And No!! not like India before anyone says it:)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well Hamish is long gone, leaving the usual unanswered questions....erm....unanswered.

See post 27

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Hamish Hamish Hamish.

You never ever answer this point....

If we bring a load more people into the country to pay for todays's pensioners, that just means loads more people to pay for when those people imported require pensions themselves.

He's right though, at least in the short term. If someone is willing to put together a budget for the next 30 years that balances without huge immigration I'd love to see it; and the look on peoples faces when they find out that it requires a near doubling of national insurance (worryingly not likely to be a exaggeration) without increasing wages.

As it stands we have immigration and we're still falling further behind. Surely we should start to address the issues and get back on track before cutting immigration off.

A._Badger

N1AK wrote: »

He's right though, at least in the short term. If someone is willing to put together a budget for the next 30 years that balances without huge immigration I'd love to see it; and the look on peoples faces when they find out that it requires a near doubling of national insurance (worryingly not likely to be a exaggeration) without increasing wages.

As it stands we have immigration and we're still falling further behind. Surely we should start to address the issues and get back on track before cutting immigration off.

On the contrary, what we really need is a non-partisan assessment of whether immigration's costs outweigh its purported advantages.

This, bearing in mind that the reason Labour opened the flood gates wasn't for economic reasons, but for political ones, as has finally been admitted.

Loughton_Monkey

It's absolutely ludicrous to imagine that immigration is any sort of 'solution' to our pensions - or anything else for that matter. At least not while we have high unemployment.

My perception is that - by and large - the majority of immigrants do work [good!] but almost exclusively at the very lowest end of the pay scale. So they are not paying much in the way of tax. Let's assume that with their small tax/NI, deducting their free health service, education for their kids, some of their kin who are on benefits, that they "wipe their faces" as regards the government coffers.

I think that's a generous assumption, but even if true, then all it does is maintains the excuse and ability for our 'idle rich' [the unemployed] to stay at home while we subsidise them big time.

If you were a reasonably wealthy businessman. Your business is solid and profitable enough while you continue to devote the hours to it. You have a lump of a daughter who is too lazy to go and find a job - not least because you pay her £700 a week just to keep her in clothes, i-phones, a car, and a 'clubbing' lifestyle.

If money was becoming just a little bit tight, why wouldn't you put her in charge of cleaning the house, doing the shopping etc. Why would you bring in a Philippino to do it?