Help with tennant moving out

alm721

Hi all, just after a bit of advice. Our tennant gave us notice to leave the house a month ago. Today was the last day. She really should have given notice till the end of the month but we were not too bothered. Anyway she texted us yesterday asking when we were picking up the keys etc. My husband told her to just post the keys through the letter box and could she leave forwarding address etc and that we would sort out her bond money this weekend after weve looked at the property etc. We had previously been in and things looked generally ok so no major issues but she had promised to have the carpets properly cleaned etc as they were all new when she moved in, obviously we want to check this has been done etc. Also she is a DSS tennant and the council pays in arrears and she makes up a small contribution (also in arrears). We have been paid up till 18th March but there is obviously still some money to come from both her and the council. Im sure getting the money from the council wont be a problem but I am reluctant to give her all the bond money back until all due rent is paid, is this unreasonable? We in no way intend to be difficult about it and have always bent over back backwards to make things easier for her and have not pressured her when she has been late with rent etc so we were a bit dissapointed to get another text from her this morning saying she needs the bond money today and that she will not give us the keys until we give her it. I think she is expecting a bit much to leave and have the bond money back in her hand the same days when there is still outstanding rent and before we have been able to have a proper look at the house. We have said we'll go this weekend and Im more than happy to give her the money less any outstanding rent (assuming she has left house in ok state) and then refund rest if/ when I reciev it from the council. Does this sound reasonable to anyone, or can anyone offer any advice.
Thanks
I feel that it is not our fault that payment is in arrears we asked for it in advance but she couldnt manage it so we accepted an arrears payment.

mountainofdebt

but if I were your tenant I would find that acceptable.

I would put this in writing to cover yourself though as she may try and claim you were illegally withholding the bond money.

thesaint

What was the agreement with regards to paying the bond back?

Is their a reason why you can not go around earlier, if not to check the flat for damage, then to change the locks(If you are certain she has vacated).

Keeping the keys won't do her any good, I wouldn't use that as a reason to be pressured into returning her money if it is not due.

reb223

You are doing all the right things. Firstly, as she has not yet returned the keys, technically you could charge her rent (and deduct it from her deposit) for each day she witholds them from you, even beyond the full notice period. Secondly, there is no law stating that a tenant is entitled to their deposit back immediately. Personally, I try to get it to them within a week or two, but it would not be unreasonable to keep it for longer if there are issues to deal with, such as those you are experiencing.

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD

Sorry don't get it !!!

We arrange to meet the tenant around 2 weeks before they leave, and together agree if anything will be deducted from their deposit, like cleaning the property, we say U clean it or we will and deduct it, that way people know were they stand.


We then arrange to meet at the property to agree utility figures !!!!!


If their on Housing Benefit we tell the tenant that we will be contacting the Benefit Office to agree what rent (if any ) is due to be paid, before finalizing the account for the property, we tell the tenant allow 7-10 days for return of deposit.


POSTING KEYS THROUGH DOORS. ABSOLUTE NO NO

alm721

Thanks for all the responses,we had intended to put everything in writing to the tennant, and have checked for major damage etc although cant be sure everything is cleaned etc as agreed until shes left (today). We are going tomorrow to check all is ok and take meter readings etc and intended to put that in the letter.
With regards to contacting the benefits office, we have done this several times in the past when there have been issues with late paymnent etc and get knowhere, they just tell us that they can't discuss the tennants housing claim with us as we are not the tennant? They should make their final payment on 16th April so at the latest all rent should be paid by then so my intention was to give her back the difference between the outstanding rent and the bond (assuming she has cleared property as she greed to) now and then give her the balance when the remaining rent has been paid.
There was nothing specific on the tennancy agreement with reference to the bond in terms of timescale etc only that any damage would be deducted from it and that the tennant should not withold rent in view of it.

I dont want to make things difficult for her Im just wary of returning all money while there is still rent outstanding, I suppose my query really is does the tennancy legally end when she gives notice to leave or when she gives the keys back or when all dealings with the tennancy have been concluded? etc I was kind of working on the fact that if there is still rent outstanding then although she has left the tennancy has not been concluded but Im not sure if this is right?

Thanks

Swishter

Part of the reason you take a bond is to cover any shortfalls in rent. I would say you are completely justified in witholding the portion of bond until the rent is received.
In future if you have tenant on HB there is normally a section on the form that the tenant can fill in to give the LL permission to discuss progress of the claim, when cheques are due etc. Council housing and housing associations normally insist on this section being completed and you should too.

Good luck with getting this sorted.

thesaint

alm721 wrote: »

<snip>
I dont want to make things difficult for her Im just wary of returning all money while there is still rent outstanding, I suppose my query really is does the tennancy legally end when she gives notice to leave or when she gives the keys back or when all dealings with the tennancy have been concluded? etc I was kind of working on the fact that if there is still rent outstanding then although she has left the tennancy has not been concluded but Im not sure if this is right?

Thanks

You need confirmation from the tenant that the tenancy has ended. Give her a call and get her to confirm or deny this. If she confirms, change the locks, if she denies, then inform her and the council that rent is still due.

You should not be witholding money if bills in her name have not been paid.

Do not return money until you have rent due paid.

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD

they just tell us that they can't discuss the tennants housing claim with us as we are not the tennant? They should make their final payment on 16th April

Yes ! some are more helpful than others, tell your tenant the above and let her haunt them until 16 April.



I dont want to make things difficult for her Im just wary of returning all money while there is still rent outstanding, I suppose my query really is does the tennancy legally end when she gives notice to leave or when she gives the keys back or when all dealings with the tennancy have been concluded? etc I was kind of working on the fact that if there is still rent outstanding then although she has left the tennancy has not been concluded but Im not sure if this is right?


The tenancy ends when she moves out with her possessions, some will say it is when the keys are handed back.

Wings

quote "Our tenant gave us notice to leave the house a month ago."

My advice"Always get notice in writing"

quote "My husband told her to just post the keys through the letter box"

My advice "No always call in person and make visible check on the property, receive keys from the tenant, obtain forwarding address, take metre readings and change the main entrance door locks"

quote "Also she is a DSS tenant and the council pays in arrears and she makes up a small contribution (also in arrears). We have been paid up till 18th March but there is obviously still some money to come from both her and the council."

My advice "Whilst the DSS have been paying directly to you the tenants rent, by the tenant or rather the ex tenant making a phone call to DSS, the tenant can change/request that the rent, or rather the arrears can/should be paid directly to the tenant/claimant. Landlords frequently make the mistake of believing that monies are rightfully theirs, it is not, it is the claimants monies to do with what they want to do with it. This is a common problem with tenants on DSS, they will cancel/change the payments towards the end of their tenancy agreements, thereby avoiding paying the landlord 2/3 months rent.

quote " Im more than happy to give her the money less any outstanding rent (assuming she has left house in ok state) and then refund rest if/ when I reciev it from the council."

My advice " For the above reason you are correct to withhold monies until the Council clears the rental arrears."

Listen very carefully, I am going to tell you a story;

A year ago, just after Christmas 2006, I was approached by an elderly Asian gentleman, who I knew to be a private landlord. He told me how he had rented out a flat to a young lady, during her tenancy she had allowed her boyfriend to move into the flat with her. Just prior to the Christmas period the boyfriend had approached the landlord stating verbally that his girlfriend had moved out of the flat. The landlord then changed the locks and cleared the flat of clothes, furniture and other effects.

Then two weeks into the New Year the young women reappears enquiring of the landlord why he has changed the locks, and where has he put all her personal belongings to. The end result of this was that with the help of the local Council, the landlord was found guilty by the local court of unlawful eviction, and had to make a financial compensation payment to the young woman for the same, and for all of her personal effects.

alm721

Things are getting silly now. Have spoken to her and informed her that we are willing to refund difference between bond paid and outstanding rent today and that we will give her the rest as soon as we recieve it (or on confirmation for council that they will pay us it), provided she gives us keys back. She has just texted us to say that she has been on internet and that we cannot withold her deposit unless there are damages or outstanding rent!. Therfore if we are going to 'be like that' she will get legal advice on Tuesday! She also said its not her that owes us money but the council!. I've sent a reply trying to explain that she is tennant not council and that ultimatly the responsibilty lies with her and that we have no intenion of witholding her bond providing the rent is paid. We have twice offered to go today and give her the difference provided she gives us the keys but she will not tell us where she is? I have texted to say that if she will not let us collect the keys tonight then I will instruct a locksmith and that this cost will be deducted from her bond, am currently waiting for her to respond. I know text isn't an Ideal way of commumicating but since we dont know where she is we have no other way of contacting her. She also is unwilling to give us a forwarding address.
Im not worried about threat of leagal action because I know we are not in the wrong but is it reasonable for us to instruct a locksmith tomorrow is she will not give us the keys back.
Thanks