Why Can't My Sister Set Up A Standing Order On Mum's Account?!

wishiwasinliverpool

She's a joint account holder on Mum's four savings accounts. Nationwide told her she couldn't set up a standing order without Mum's say-so, but Mum now has to pay for her care home fees (she's self-funding and in an EMI care home; she's 86, has schizophrenia and can't look after herself; nor does she have capacity to make decisions).

Been down the road of Power of Attorney, Mum won't have it, and we can't afford Court of Protection.

So the council paid for her four week transitional care, and now the home want their money. We can't get access to it. Apparently it makes a difference as they're not cheque accounts, they're savings accounts.

It's stupid that as a joint account holder my sister still can't set up the standing order to pay the home!:mad:

The home are going to invoice my sister for the outstanding amount, so will Nationwide or Santander honour a cheque for a large amount?

dzug1

Most savings accounts don't allow standing orders at all, so it's not that your sister can't - noone can.

So you need to transfer money from the savings accounts to a current account and pay the fees from there. Or make a cheque withdrawal - there may or may not be a limit on the amount.

And you don't pay the Court of Protection fees - your mum does. You may have to fund them temporarily but you are entitled to them back.

psychic_teabag

Savings accounts don't usually do standing orders. Usually need a current account for that.

However, I'm a little surprised that the response was "you need Mum's say-so to do it" rather than "this is a savings account and so it can't be done".

Since she's a joint account holder, she should be able to withdraw some money or transfer it to another account, such as her current account. (Though it depends how the savings account is set up : some allow withdrawals only to a nominated "linked account".)

xylophone

nor does she have capacity to make decisions

Been down the road of Power of Attorney, Mum won't have it,

But she is able to make the decision not to give a PA?

With regard to these joint accounts, what did the original terms and conditions say about signing power/access?

Was it one to sign/two to sign? Is your sister able to access funds, even if not to set up a standing order?

If she can access funds, she might have to set up a standing order to pay the home from her own bank account, then re-imburse herself by drawing cash from the savings accounts (keeping immaculate records of course).

Otherwise, the council might have to seek a court order to access the accounts?

http://www.saga.co.uk/money/pensions-and-savings/paul-lewis-on-the-web/lasting-power-of-attorney-care-when-you-cant.aspx

wishiwasinliverpool

dzug1 and psychic teabag, many thanks for your quick replies.

I have savings accounts and a cheque account - I never knew that about savings accounts, though! It makes sense now, although my sister never gave that as a reason, she said it had to be done with Mum's permission (and she'd never give it)

Mum doesn't have cheque books or a current account with any of her banks; she dealt with her bills the old-fashioned way, with cash!

It's looking more like COP now, although apparently social services can set the wheels in motion for Power of Attorney, although I don't know how they go about it!

It's such a mess!

wishiwasinliverpool

xylophone wrote: »

But she is able to make the decision not to give a PA?

She has schizophrenia, xylophone, so she's manipulative. When asked about POA last year she said no - and she likes to be belligerent. She could agree one minute, then change her mind the next. That's what she's like.

But I see what you're saying.

I don't know about the terms and conditions of the bank arrangements.

I have the added problem of a sister who wouldn't want the hassle of what you suggest, she just wants the key throwing away (that's another story I won't bore you with! ) although what you suggest sounds a good idea.

Torry_Quine

Once POA or COP is set up the best thing to do is get a current account and have the pension etc paid into this and the SO to the home coming out of it. Also does she have AA as this is also able to help with fees as she is self-funding.

wishiwasinliverpool

Hi Terry, I have been made an appointee for Mum's pension so that will be paid into my current account once her card account has been closed. I have to do that down here in Bristol (Mum's in Liverpool).

When the Pension lady came she said I should get POA started. I can try again with Mum, but...

Torry_Quine

wishiwasinliverpool wrote: »

Hi Terry, I have been made an appointee for Mum's pension so that will be paid into my current account once her card account has been closed. I have to do that down here in Bristol (Mum's in Liverpool).

When the Pension lady came she said I should get POA started. I can try again with Mum, but...

I presume you mean me.

xylophone

I have been made an appointee for Mum's pension so that will be paid into my current account once her card account has been closed. I have to do that down here in Bristol (Mum's in Liverpool).

You and your sister are clearly having a very trying time.

You might wish to open another current account to receive Mum's pension so that her affairs are kept separate from your own.

Assuming that your sister can sign money out of the savings account, perhaps she could do so (say once a quarter) and you could pay this into the new account you set up - then you can set up the standing order to the home?

wishiwasinliverpool

Sorry, Torry

Thank you for your advice, xylophone, on the separate bank account. For now Mum's pension will be paid into my own current account. I signed the form to say it must go towards her care home fees.

Meanwhile I have just found out my sister is not in fact a joint account holder; her name is merely on Mum's savings books as a third party from where she can pay bills etc on Mum's behalf if she is unable to do so. She has paid Mum's utility bills, so hopefully she can pay the care home bills as well...