Notice of penalty assessment

missile

Hi,

I hope you can advise on how best to appeal what I feel to be unfair penalty.

I was asked to carry out part time work and started a limited company in November 2010. It was initially anticipated this would be 1 or two days per week for circa 6 months. As a director I paid myself a flat rate of £442 per month from April 2011.

On 20th June 2012 I received a self assessment notice. Late filing penalty £100.
I paid the fine and appealed this penalty, on the grounds that I did not think believe I owed any tax for 2010/11. I completed and submitted my tax return 12th July 2012.

On 18th September 2012I received a self assessment tax return advising me that I had overpaid tax £314.40 and I anticipated my appeal against late filing would be accepted.

Today, I have received another penalty notice for late filling £150. :eek:

I would appreciate your advice.

System

The grounds of appeal should be an explanation of the reason you were unable to file your return by its due date. The fact that no tax was due would not explain why the return was late.

I don't know if you can resubmit your appeal setting out your case. The letter turning down your appeal should have explained what to do if you disagreed with the decision.

Hope that helps

pjclar02

Hello there

If you only received a notice to file a return on 20 June, then you have three months in which to file to avoid a penalty. Therefore if you submitted by 20 September there should be no penalty. I may have misunderstood some of the dates in your message though.

Otherwise, as mentioned, you would need a good reason not to file (illness etc). The fact that there is no tax due is no longer grounds for appeal against a penalty.

System

pjclar02 wrote: »

Hello there

If you only received a notice to file a return on 20 June, then you have three months in which to file to avoid a penalty. Therefore if you submitted by 20 September there should be no penalty. I may have misunderstood some of the dates in your message though.

Otherwise, as mentioned, you would need a good reason not to file (illness etc). The fact that there is no tax due is no longer grounds for appeal against a penalty.

It's not entirely clear from OP but I read it as 20 June being 1st late filing penalty notice

missile

Thanks for your comments.

Please be advised, I did not receive a notice to file an assessment for 2010/11.

First communication dated 20th June Self Assessment Statement

Becoming Due 05 Jul 12 Late filing Penalty for 10/11 £100

Dated 18th September Self Assessment Statement

Late filing penalties for the year ended 5 April 2011
3 months late - a daily penalty of £10 a day for 15 days
This is for the period from 17 August 2012 (3 months after the paper tax return deadline) to 31 August 2012 (the date we received your tax return)

Please be advised: I submitted my return on 12.07.12 but they rejected my return on 6th August as I had not included the employment supplementary page. 31st August is the date when they accepted my return.

HMRC were slow to review/ reject my rself assessment, which contributed to the lateness. Would this be grounds for appeal ?

System

missile wrote: »

Thanks for your comments.

Please be advised, I did not receive a notice to file an assessment for 2010/11.

First communication dated 20th June Self Assessment Statement


Dated 18th September Self Assessment Statement


Please be advised: I submitted my return on 12.07.12 but they rejected my return on 6th August as I had not included the employment supplementary page. 31st August is the date when they accepted my return.

HMRC were slow to review/ reject my rself assessment, which contributed to the lateness. Would this be grounds for appeal ?

I can't really comment on what is/isn't a 'reasonable excuse' (HMRC's term).

But there are still one or two points to clear up before forming your case.

You say you didn't receive a notice to file a Return.

1) did you receive a return form to complete (if you didn't get a notice to file). If you did, the form is the notice and would had set out the due date.
2) did you submit the original (incomplete) return by its due date?
3) if you didn't receive either a return form or notice to file, what prompted you to submit a Return
4) did you already have a UTR reference number prior to filing your return.

missile

Please be advised:
1) I did not receive a return form or a notice to file.
2) I downloaded the self assessment form from the internet and submitted it in response to the Self Assessment Statement dated 20th June 2012

Becoming Due 05 Jul 12 Late filing Penalty for 10/11 £100

3) The Self Assessment Statement prompted me to submit a return.
4) No.

System

missile wrote: »

Please be advised:
1) I did not receive a return form or a notice to file.
2) I downloaded the self assessment form from the internet and submitted it in response to the Self Assessment Statement dated 20th June 2012
3) The Self Assessment Statement prompted me to submit a return.
4) No.

Cheers, that makes it clearer.

You might have to do a little digging to find out why you've not received previous correspondence, but this might at least offer an arguable case.

If the first thing you received was the statement showing the penalty, it'd mean you hadn't received

1) SA welcome letter - automatically issued when they set up your record.
2) Return or Notice to File.
3) Reminder (this may or may not have been issued depending on the date Return issued)
4) Late Return penalty notice.

HMRC should be able to let you know when these were issued and if they went to the right address. You need to establish if the notice / return was correctly served. That is to say HMRC issued it to the right address in the first place ( or at least used the most up to date address details you had supplied)

Hope this helps.

missile

I was never asked to complete a self assessment. The first notification I received was the penalty notice.

I was under the misaprehension that as I received zero salary during the tax year 2010/11, I did not need to complete a self assessment. As I now understand it, as director I should have known it was my responsibility to submit a SA. HMRC are not obliged to tell me that an assessment was due.

It does seem a little harsh, that I am being fined for late submission of a self assessment, when I had overpaid tax and was due a refund from HMRC.

antonic

This is from the HMRC Website :

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/need-tax-return.htm

Company directors, ministers, Lloyd's names or members

You must complete a return if you're any of the following:

• a company director (unless you're a director of a non-profit organisation, for example a charity, and don't receive any payments or benefits)
• a minister of religion (any faith)
• a name or member of Lloyd's

HMRC will argue that it is YOUR responsibility to register for SA, not theirs to tell you as a simple google search has led me to this information.


And this about when to register for SA


http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/register.htm


Why and when you need to register for Self Assessment

You need to register for Self Assessment before you complete your first tax return.
When you register you’ll give HMRC the information they need to set up the right records for you. This helps to make sure you pay the right amount of tax and National Insurance at the right time.
For other changes in circumstances, simply complete the relevant boxes or supplementary pages on your Self Assessment tax return.
When to register

It's best if you register with HMRC as soon as your circumstances change. The latest you should register is by 5 October after the end of the tax year for which you need a tax return. The tax year runs from 6 April one year to 5 April the next.
If, for example, you have tax to pay on rent from a property in the 2011-12 tax year, you need to let HMRC know by 5 October 2012.
If you register late you may have to pay a penalty.


So this is why you got a Penalty.


You can try and appeal the Penalty for filing the return late, but I fear you may not get far as HMRC will claim that an incomplete return is NOT a valid return.


Also as others have said make sure they have the correct address for you and that you have no problems with the Post Office, as HMRC are notoriously reluctant to believe that the only piece of post you received from them was the Penalty notification and nothing else beforehand.


Anymore questions please post back.

bartnwood

Hello missile,

Unfortunately it is clear that you will not win your case based on the information given so I would advise you pay the penalties as soon as possible as you do not want to be charged interest also for not paying the penalties on time!