Bailiff related Question.

kinny999

Ok so I've found out in the last couple of days that prior to me moving in with her at the start of the month, my girlfriend had fallen behind with her council tax payment by around £300/400.

She'd spoken to the council knowing i was moving in to say that although she'd not been excellent at paying in the past her circumstances would soon change and she'd be in a better position to pay on time. The chap she spoke to said "That's fine but please make a payment within the next 2 weeks" which was the plan as i was about to move in.

About 7 days into the 2 weeks a council appointed bailiff turned up and made demands for £230 as an initial payment and then we could talk about a payment plan. We couldn't pay this so we said you'll have to wait until the end of the month as he agreed to come back on the 28th, my pay day.

Now the council magically don't have a record of her phoning them although we do have a letter from them in regards to the phone call so they have dropped the ball a bit there.

My partner spoke to them and they told her that now the bill is with the Bailiff they cannot accept any payment and it must go through him, bailiffs £80 charge included.

With it being my girlfriends bill prior to me moving in, i can't really do alot on her part but I'd like to know if there's anything I can do to help her, and us.

We can pay the initial payment he's after come the end of the month but it will leave us with not enough to live off once rent and bills have come out so I'd rather pay less i he'll accept it, while he's working for the council i get the feeling he's plucked the figure out of his !!!! a little.

If anyone has any advice or hints it'd be greatly appreciated.

Boundstone23

~Yes ~I have just gone through all this, but i owed £3500 . Firstly dont let the bailiffs in to the property. Secondly dont agree anything with them. Thirdly tell them to go away and when they say you will be summoned to court and may face jail, tell them they are not aloud to say that as they have no jurisdiction. They normally use the line of we will be back with the police. The police never get involved as long as you are not threatening to the bailiff....Take their names and company details and let them know that you will be reporting them to the council. Now they will go away, they may call and try and bully you, then after a few months it will be returned to the council and they will then send you a form to fill in for Income & expenditure. Make sure that you fill this in so that your remaining free money is less than £150.....then you can suggest £50 a month to them.....its easy and they will accept it.....They did for me

kinny999

Is that so? Well that's a bit better, my worry is that the council won't physically take a payment from us as its been passed to this bailiff by them though?

My girlfriend actually tried to make a payment in the initial "forgotten" phone call to them but the chap she spoke to advised her not to make any payment until the updated bill came through?

We're certainly not trying to shirk the bill, just pay it off in a way that doesn't leave us chasing out tails until the end of this tax year.

Will the bailiff be slightly more empowered given that he's been put on to it by the council themselves?

thank you for the quick reply though matey!

Asbestross

The first question which needs addressing I believe is if you received a notice of intent in relation to this debt at least two weeks prior to the visit. If not, write a letter explaining that you have been denied the lawful requirement of two weeks notice to remedy the situation before the amounts outstanding were passed to the bailiffs office, also write a formal payment schedule. Take these in person to the council and request a receipt for them which they have to provide.

By law you must receive at least two weeks notice of intent to pass to the bailiffs office for any council tax debt. If this has happened, then they have the right to chase for the debt and it usually means that the council has obtained a liability order in court for the debt. But as Boundstone pointed out, the fact that they have not as yet gained peacful entry to your home goes well in your favour. Do not under any circumstances allow them access. Lock all windows and doors and if you have any unexpected knocks on the door, use a latch to answer, or talk through the letterbox to identify the caller.

Whilst bailiffs are not legally allowed to gain unlawful access to a property, they can and usually will climb through unlocked windows, open unlocked doors etc. And most certainly will look through any unlocked garages you may have.

Will the bailiff be slightly more empowered given that he's been put on to it by the council themselves?

Unless they have previously gained peaceful access, then no. They are merely acting on behalf of the council. If they cannot make contact, or levy goods... then there is no further action they can take and it will be passed back to the council. However, expect some serious intimidation before this will happen. Just remember through thick and thin:

• They cannot call the police
• They cannot have you arrested for non-payment
• They cannot attend with a locksmiths
• They cannot approach your employer to arrange an attachment of earnings
• And finally they cannot discuss this debt or any details relating to it, to anyone other than those responsible. Doing this is a serious breach of DPA.

If a bailiff merely mentions any of these, you need to be writing a full complaint to the company responsible and CC'ing the council in.

They can, however levy any vehicle which is registered to the person in question. Park all cars at least a street away until this issue has been resolved.

Good luck

kinny999

As far as im aware no notice was given either by the council or the company the bailiff is working for, i will check this and update later today.

Sincere thanks for your help and advice.

I'll add any further details once i'm home from work later this morning.

dancingfairy

O.K it's likely that they will have revoked the permission to pay in installments so the entire council tax bill for the year will become due. You need to find out if the bill that has been sent to the bailiff is the correct full years bill (espcially as it may now be higher now you have moved in if she was claiming a single person discount).
Check with the council what the liability charges are in your area (I believe they are around the 90 pound mark). This is what it costs the council to make an application to the magistrates court.
Ask the bailiff for a statement of the account (not sure what the correct term is here) and a full breakdown of all charges added. They are allowed to charge a maximum of 42.50 for 2 visits in an attempt to levy but where no levy has been made. Any other fees at this stage are likely to be illegal and should be carefully double checked (unless they have either been inside the property and levied or levied on a vehicle).
You should then draw up a sensible repayment plan that you can afford to stick to. Be aware that the council will want this debt cleared before the end of the tax year as otherwise it will run into next years bill and could cause you further problems (and the council has to show that it collects as much tax in the correct year and isn't slacking on it's collection figures).
The advice about showing less than 150 a month surplus is random to say the least and as far as I can tell is based on one person circumstances and has no bearing on your situation at all.
df

dancingfairy

I would also check whether they have merely cancelled the single person discount from the time you moved in or whether they closed your girlfriends account at that time and created another account in both of your names (this would then have a different account number).
IF they have removed the single persons discount from the account after it has gone to liability order you need to check whether the liability order is still valid as the amount owing would now be incorrect.
So your first action is to speak to the council and get all the info regarding how many accounts there are, what the amount on the liability order is, what period it covers and whether it includes costs.
Secondly get in touch with the bailiffs and get a written balance on the account and full breakdown of fees (in writing).
Most importantly do not let the bailiff in.
Let us know how you get on.
Best of Luck
df
P.S The council cannot refuse a payment although they can make life difficult for you and try and insist you go through the bailiff. If they start being difficult then take a name/ask to speak to a manager and ask why they are refusing to take a payment. Also keep a written record of this and follow up with a letter to the head of council tax if needs be.
Also when setting up a payment plan with the council (this is what you will be aiming for) I would send them a copy of your budget and make it very clear in the letter that this is what you can afford and that you want to pay. You need to make sure that you are not marked as a won't pay as this could cause problems down the line. Whilst you are attempting to negotiate (in writing) with the council you should also make the payments to show that you can be trusted and you will make them on time.

McKneff

Surely this will have had to have been at court for any bailiffs to have been appointed.

So wouldnt they have been court appointed bailiffs.

kinny999

Cheers for all the replies folk, much appreciated by myself and my girlfriend.

Right then, we spoke to the bailiff over the phone out of courtesy more than anything else, i told him " although this will probably not change anything in your eyes, there is no point in you calling round tomorrow (as we'd initially agreed to with him) as we are still in correspondence with the council due to an administrative error on their behalf and as such we will not be paying you a penny, nor do we consent to any charges arising from your visits past or future"

He struggled to say anything other than some mumbled threat of police action at which point i told him i was aware of the rules he has to abide to and as he was working for a local authority, lying about having the ability getting the police involved probably wasn't the wisest move.

He said "i'll have to check this with the council, can you call me back in 15 minutes" I said no, you are welcome to call me back though and if i am free i will answer.

Anyway with me getting paid the next day we decided, be it wisely or not to get a payday loan to go pay the bill right away just in case he decided to turn up some time Friday and add charges and then chase us for them.

He obviously called the council in between us paying them over the phone, (they did try and stop us paying them directly without actually saying so and encouraged us to go through the debt company) and calling me back so i explained and suggested he try them again in 15 minutes as we had in fact cleared the outstanding account. Before thanking him for his time and ending the phone call.

So we may have a frugal month ahead until out tax credits are worked out (our situation has just changed)hopefully sometime in the next couple of weeks the bill is paid and the pay day loan will be repaid in about 12 hours when my wages go in so although not the solution for all it only cost us £6 in interest overnight and avoided any grief had he decided to pay us a visit tomorrow morning.


thanks once again for the help and advice folks, if there's anything i've left unanswered then please feel free to ask and i'll do my best to answer.