bf dismissed for alleged gross misconduct - need advice for the appeal - please help

czerniacha

Hi,

I would really appreciate any suggestions, advice and help please

Here's the story:

My boyfriend was a Delivery Driver for a well-known company(for less then a year). I the middle of August he's failed a security audit. He went to collect a parcel from a customer and left the door unlocked with the keys inside the van It was an industrial area with on-site security however the guys doing the audit managed to drive his van away(round the corner, before security arrived) :eek:

(now please I know he did a very stupid thing and told him that many many times :mad: and do not really need it confirmed once again )

So they did the report(unsatisfactory performace), he signed it, got a copy and went straight to his manager with it after arriving back at the company. He's been told that if it was 'for real' he would loose his job. No further consequences were mentioned and he was told to come to work as usual the next working day.

He never heard anything about it until the almost 4 weeks later when he got a letter that he's to attend a disciplinary hearing because of this incident(classing it as a gross misconduct - 'failure to keep vehicle or it's load secure' and also 'wilful failure to follow company procedures and regulations'). The letter mentioned a possible dismissal however he was expecting a warning and it was a huge disappointment when they did make a decision to dismiss him(also reasoning it that the system shows that after the incident he was still not locking the bulk door when driving-at some times the van was overloaded so he couldn't close them or they were faulty however it was not the case at all times ). He never got any warnings about those issues nor was he told that he's subject to a disciplinary investigation.

Basically now I'm looking for any advice on the appeal(he's not a member of a union but will try to talk to them tomorrow and I'm sending him to the CAB as well; called ACAS today but they weren't much help except for telling me to appeal), what reasons could I base it on? Should he at any point admit any fault(ie. that he did fail to secure the vehicle etc.) or express regret for it? should I make it a bit personal/emotional as well? or just stick to the facts(ie. he never actually had anything stolen/damaged or any other issues regarding security, the van was almost empty as all deliveries were done)

He really wants this job back but if the dismissal will be upheld is there any way that he can still negotiate with them afterwards(with that I mean references?anything else?)?

ANY advice is really valued right now as I have no experience whatsoever with things like that and it has to be done by Friday

Thanks in advance:A

blossomhill_2

Sorry to hear this
Didn't ACAS give any reason on which to base the appeal?

Is there any technicality he could go for, such as not having been trained/shown the procedures?

He also needs to look at the disiplinary procedure that a company is required to follow, and see if they have failed to follow it in any way in his case - see LINK to DirectGov here

Before he goes to appeal perhaps he should make himself a list of the times he didn't follow procedure and list why - then see if the dates his employers know it was unsecured coincide with the dates it was overloaded - if so, he could argue (politely) that there was a contributary reason, ie the van overload.

If all the dates they know about are overload dates, don't say "I know I didn't always lock it" or admit it was ever left unlocked for other reasons

Best I can offer I am afraid, I hope someone else can help

Sambucus_Nigra

What grounds are you appealing on? He's been there for less than a year so can't go for unfair dismissal...which is defined on the following link

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Dismissal/DG_10026692

czerniacha

I don't really know yet to be honest

I was going to point out that the manager he talked to right after the incident didn't inform him there will be any other disciplinary actions following the incident/discussion so he assumed the issue was closed(not good enough probably)

Also he didn't have any previous feedback/warnings regarding following(or not in this case) the security procedures and they get feedback on their performace daily.

No 'real' loss(ie. nothing had been ever stolen/damaged)?

Other employees have not been dismissed even after having goods stolen from their vehicles?

That's what I need help with really...

As said he hasn't got an excuse for every time he didn't lock the door As far as I know they were able to show him on the system the time(ie. how many minutes/hours in total) he drove with the door unlocked and not how many times it happened...

ACAS said they can't 'give' me the reasons...

Also I don't think I can base it on lack of training, they train them very well, it is just the amount of stops and deadlines that is such a pressure that he(as well as many many more) doesn't always follow all of them exactly as he should...

czerniacha

yes he has the 'books' and those are listed as gross misconduct:

'failure to keep vehicle or it's load secure' and also 'wilful failure to follow company procedures and regulations'

so they classed the security audit as the first and the fact that he still didn't always lock the bulk door(the 'inside' door) as the second

there were incidents when other drivers had parcels stolen from their vans(even more then once) and still work there... so as much as I think what he did is wrong I feel like the punishment is far too heavy in compare to the 'sin' especially without mentioning anything to him before I told him to try and investigate any similar situations and their consequences tomorrow...

denla

If the other drivers locked their vans properly and parcels were still stolen then they are at no fault. They've done everything by the book. Your boyfriend didn't follow the rules.

czerniacha

I do understand that he didn't follow the rules denla...

What I'm looking for is just some advice if there is ANYTHING that I could base the appeal on if you see what I mean?

sniggings

isn't there a rule that for gross misconduct the person has to be suspended straight away, to wait for the outcome of the case?

I would argue that to sack him 4 weeks later, whilst being allowed to carry on doing the same job he was sacked for, can not be classed as gross misconduct!

I understand how much pressure they put on you to do the job, but don't give you the time to follow all the rules, my last job was the same, it was impossible to do the job at the same time as following all the rules but at the same time a team would be trying to catch you not following the rules.

My guess is, your on a loosing battle, they have made their minds up and will not go back on it now.

Good luck.

Uncertain

sniggings wrote: »

isn't there a rule that for gross misconduct the person has to be suspended straight away, to wait for the outcome of the case?

No!

An individual firm may have such a procedure but it is not mandatory.

I would agree however that it is debatable whether this is gross misconduct. However, as they could dismiss him anyway the only difference this makes is whether he is entitled to notice (or pay in lieu).

I would suspect, if seriously challenged, the firm would not defend a WRONGFUL dismissal claim for the notice pay. Making such a claim may at least be a way of getting an agreed reference as part of a COT3 settlement arranged through ACAS.

charlie3090

sniggings wrote: »

isn't there a rule that for gross misconduct the person has to be suspended straight away, to wait for the outcome of the case?

I would argue that to sack him 4 weeks later, whilst being allowed to carry on doing the same job he was sacked for, can not be classed as gross misconduct!

I understand how much pressure they put on you to do the job, but don't give you the time to follow all the rules, my last job was the same, it was impossible to do the job at the same time as following all the rules but at the same time a team would be trying to catch you not following the rules.

My guess is, your on a loosing battle, they have made their minds up and will not go back on it now.

Good luck.

i agree, i thought that once there is a suspicion/allegation of gross misconduct,the employee had to be suspended while investigated etc

paddedjohn

As already pointed out, since he worked there for less than a year he's probably on a hiding to nothing and might as well concentrate all his efforts into finding another job and move on.