Girl Guides membership - our daughter cannot join?

Welshwoofs

thorsoak wrote: »

but I do find myself feeling sad that Christianity is being knocked by one and all - yet heaven forfend that anyone should criticise a muslim/pagan/carrot worshipper for their faith!

It's not about christianity being 'knocked' at all - it's about an organisation that is willing to accept people from ALL religions, but exclude people who are non-believers. That's not an attack on christianity.....it's an attack on atheism.

Someone said that the elderly (70s, I see to remember) Guide leader is a cra**py jobsworth - honestly - you think it fine to say something like that?

I said that she seemed like a bit of a job's worthy (I never mentioned 'crappy') because she went out of her way to question the girl about her beliefs when there was no need to. And yes, I think that's a perfectly acceptable comment to make.

I call that sad.

I call it sad that an organisation that states "Girlguiding UK is committed to promoting equality and diversity." and "It is Girlguiding UK’s intention not to discriminate on the grounds of race, gender, disability, nationality, religion, age, sexual orientation, family status or any other irrelevant factor." on its site is happy to exclude a young girl because she's not a believer....especially since that fully ticks a box for the 'irrelevant factor' stated above.

milliebear00001

My daughter made her Brownie promise as a non-believer. She was never questioned about her religious beliefs and she didn't blink at the promise she made, despite being fairly vociferous normally about her lack of belief in a supernatural God.

I do think it's a little unusual for a Leader to delve into belief with a Guide - never had it happen before (and I was a Guide myself).

I do accept that a requirement of belonging to the Guides is to make a promise to love 'a supernatural God', but it might be worth reminding this Leader than although she can force a verbal promise, she cannot know the content of one's mind and therefore cannot guarantee any of her members really believe in a supernatural power. Similarly, she would have to accept all Gods as equal - including faith in Wicca/Satan/etc. Buddhists do not technically believe in a supernatural power either...

Is she really going to exclude your daughter, who fulfils every other part of the promise', because of one aspect of it? I don't find that very in keeping with Christian values (although I am not a Christian myself). My local Church has a big sign outside saying 'all welcome' - and see a big part of their community role as reaching out to everyone, including those who do not believe.

londonsurrey

Can't she just say she believes in good?

Person_one

londonsurrey wrote: »

Can't she just say she believes in good?

Erm, why should she have to?

What a great lesson for a ten year old, sometimes you have to lie to get others to accept you.

londonsurrey

Person_one wrote: »

Erm, why should she have to?

What a great lesson for a ten year old, sometimes you have to lie to get others to accept you.

Erm, because I took it as said that she believed in basic goodness?
Are you saying that I was erroneous, and she believes in being nasty to people?

Person_one

londonsurrey wrote: »

Erm, because I took it as said that she believed in basic goodness?
Are you saying that I was erroneous, and she believes in being nasty to people?

Oops, I read that as god, not good sorry!

Still, 'good' is not a deity, and the wording seems to suggest a deity is required.

londonsurrey

Person_one wrote: »

Oops, I read that as god, not good sorry!

Still, 'good' is not a deity, and the wording seems to suggest a deity is required.

Lol. That makes so much more sense now. I had images of a Chuckie type child trying to join the Guides.

I agree with you that the whole thing is geared up towards a deity. However, I think it's akin to being a vegetarian in an entrenched ominivorous society - you have to come up with the changes that are acceptable to you.

When taking a pledge to tell the truth in court, I opted for the non-deity version, and it makes this kind of concession of the person making the pledge making a nod towards basic truth (/goodness/right/etc).

sassyblue

I remember joining girl guides when l was little, we weren't allowed to go unless we also went to Sunday school in the village! Our Jehovah's witness friends couldn't go because they weren't Christian. I'm not sure if times have moved on (this was 70s rural Norfolk) or if we had leaders who made it up as they went along?

Mojisola

sassyblue wrote: »

I remember joining girl guides when l was little, we weren't allowed to go unless we also went to Sunday school in the village! Our Jehovah's witness friends couldn't go because they weren't Christian. I'm not sure if times have moved on (this was 70s rural Norfolk) or if we had leaders who made it up as they went along?

My experience is even earlier than yours but, locally, we had some troops that were affiliated with particular churches, eg Roman Catholics and they only had Catholic girls in them.

londonsurrey

I wonder if the leader realises that her interpretation means that a child belonging to a demonic cult may join, but an atheist child may not.