Another subsidence post - neighbours tho

olibrofiz

Ah, yes, there's a crack in the corner of my bedroom ceiling on the side of the neighbours house. But why would I contact my insurance? All my external walls look fine, no cracks etc. And the crack on my neighbours external wall is on the side away from my house - I'll try to upload a rough drawing.

I had front windows replaced 5 years ago, him about 4 years ago - never noticed the crack before as there's a holly tree who's branches obscure it unless you know it's there

If my insurance co decided it was subsidence next door would they want me to do stuff to my house? Cos presumably they couldn't force him to rectify the problem with his house - I'm a bit confused???

I think he's just planning on getting a trowel out and slapping a bit of concrete in - the house is up for sale

ruggedtoast

olibrofiz wrote: »

It's not my house, its the one next door. would my insurance co be interested then?

Young man. You seem to think this is all a big joke, a titillating tale to tempt your friends with while you tarry in your local tavern.

It is not. More to the point, it is deadly serious and has the most shocking implications for you as a homeowner.

You and all your neighbours are essentially house mates. You all live in a big long house, with walls at either end and lots of rooms in the middle.

Part of the big long house you all share together is cracking. This could be nothing, or it could be for a reason that no less serious than the very ground beneath it is collapsing, into Quatermass's pit as far as anyone knows.

If you were an insurance company, or a potential buyer, what might you think about this state of affairs?

Fire_Fox

olibrofiz wrote: »

Ah, yes, there's a crack in the corner of my bedroom ceiling on the side of the neighbours house. But why would I contact my insurance? All my external walls look fine, no cracks etc. And the crack on my neighbours external wall is on the side away from my house - I'll try to upload a rough drawing.

I had front windows replaced 5 years ago, him about 4 years ago - never noticed the crack before as there's a holly tree who's branches obscure it unless you know it's there

If my insurance co decided it was subsidence next door would they want me to do stuff to my house? Cos presumably they couldn't force him to rectify the problem with his house - I'm a bit confused???

I think he's just planning on getting a trowel out and slapping a bit of concrete in - the house is up for sale

Awesome diagram! :cool: I believe your buildings insurer would contact your neighbour's insurance company if there was subsidence. Some of your internal walls are important, some of them will be load bearing holding up the roof.

Could be next door's windows, I wonder if there is a problem with the lintels, those bricks should not be dropping. If his house moves it will take part of yours with it, 'your' crack seems to be on the party wall? This RICS document looks useful.

"2.4 Lintel failure
The wall above a door or window head should be supported. Historically, this was by way of timber lintels and brick arches, either flat or with a slight curve. Most recently these lintels are formed from concrete or concealed metal upon which the brick or block walling is carried.

Timber can decay through rot or woodworm and subsequently crush. Timber lintels can also sag through age, resulting in movement within the brickwork above. The outline of cracking will form a triangle rising from either end of the lintel to an apex.

In some instances there is no lintel but the support is provided by a solid timber framed window. When these have to be replaced by newer uPVC windows, damage can occur if a new lintel is not inserted, as the lighter modern windows are unable to support the weight of the brickwork.

Weathering of the mortar joints between bricks to a brick arch can cause a loss of adhesion between the bricks and slipping. This will result in a drop in the brickwork supported above and a triangle of displacement.

Concrete lintels are either pre-cast or are cast on site. Both will be reinforced with steel. If the reinforcement is missing or inadequate, or if a pre-cast lintel is placed the wrong way up then deflection in the lintel will occur giving rise to triangulated cracking above.

The reinforcement within concrete lintels may be of mild steel, which can corrode if exposed to moisture. Corrosion is an expansive force which can cause the concrete to spall forcing the lintel to fail and deflect with cracking above.

Metal lintels or beams can also corrode. If the corrosion is severe and the load fail ability is impaired then sagging may occur. The same triangulated pattern of cracking will develop above the lintel or beam.

Total collapse of a lintel is not unknown and this will cause the wall above to fall away leaving a triangulated void."

myfanwy

I used to live in a converted semi that had subsidence - from what I remember, we contacted our insurer, they sent a loss adjuster and an engineer round to inspect the damage and subsequently they contacted the people next door (as our crack was in the party wall). However, I don't think our insurers got very far with our neighbours as they were trying to sell, and so preferred to stick their fingers in their ears, shout 'La la la..' etc. In the end our house was underpinned but no work was done next door. It seemed to sort the problem out from our point of view though - the cracks never came back.

Your neighbour's subsidence needs to be resolved by his insurance company, but, as your neighbour is unlikely to want to open this can of worms, the only way for you to reach them is via your own insurers - if this subsidence is found to be affecting you.

So your options I would say are:
- Ring your insurers and ask them to investigate (though be aware this means you may have a potential claim for subsidence on your file, possibly meaning higher premiums in the future)
- Engage a structural engineer on a private basis to get an informed opinion of what's happening. That's what we did before deciding to get the insurers involved - obv not a cost free option (although I think some insurers will sometimes accept the cost of this as part of a claim)
- Do nothing and sit tight
- Get the polyfilla out, patch up the crack, put your house on the market pronto and pray for a naive buyer....