EON Switch causing us nightmares!!

Terrylw1

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena wrote: »

Thanks for coming back to us,

That does explain the objection then, as not all companies will take on a heatwise meter or dual MPANS.

Once all of the information has been updated the switch will be able to go ahead.

It may also explain some of the high usage, as the Heatwise meter will be wired directly into the central heating/immersion water heating circuits at the property. Heatwise automatically switches your storage heaters/immersion water heater on and off during set times.

We would always recommend getting in an independent electrician before having the heatwise part of the meter removed as the wiring may need to be changed.

What tariff have you been on since having the heatwise taken out? There is only one heatwise tariff with E.ON which I assume you were on until the meter was taken out. Are you now just one rate or economy 7?

Helena

I think what has happened with the switch is that the new supplier has attempted to gain the primary MPAN only and that allows the current supplier to object on that basis.

Just a hunch with that comment over updating a "central database" which I take to mean ECOES. The supplier doesn't update ECOES to remove the meter anyway, the Meter Operator does, however you would need to cancel the Heatwise MPAN.

OP - they have to update your account as well based on the meter removal. Since this meter removal doesn't explain your issues with high bills which came earlier, can you post more details about consumption, especially around the time of that original meter change.

Did that meter change move you to Heatwise by any chance? If so, I think you need to consider the possibility that you were miss sold a product that didn't benefit you. This may not be the case, it could be a billing error, but its something else to think about.

Something else that is an issue here is your heating. If your heating was wired to the off peak circuit to use the Heatwise meter, why did the engineer do the job knowing it would cause your heating to go off? That's a serious failure. If my understanding of Heatwise put to Helena for clarification is right, you off peak circuit is now not attached to anything. So, can you switch your heating on manually? It will be at the standard rate now though.

I really think you have been badly advised here. You should raise a complaint and after 8 weeks you can refer it to the ombudsman.

Helena - I thought Heatwise was a combination of a standard single rate meter on the primary MPAN plus the Heatwise off peak meter on a secondary MPAN? If so, surely by removing it there is no option but to bill on a single rate tariff from this point up to the switch, not E7.

muskrat16

Many thanks for everyone's advice, haven't added more details because we are last getting some progress re our impending switch to Scottish Power. Eon have finally admitted they were at fault and are updating the central database. I've no doubt that posting our problem here, might have actually helped! Will update this post when the matter has been resolved, as it might be of help to others in a similar position.

Terrylw1

I think you've got more problems than that.

Logically disconnecting the secondary MPAN is usually pretty quick. It can be rejected though hence some extra work to resolve any issues causing this may add some time but its all fixable.

Personally, I would be very concerned about your lack of heating and your billing. Switching isn't going to resolve the heating problem.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Something else that is an issue here is your heating. If your heating was wired to the off peak circuit to use the Heatwise meter, why did the engineer do the job knowing it would cause your heating to go off? That's a serious failure. If my understanding of Heatwise put to Helena for clarification is right, you off peak circuit is now not attached to anything. So, can you switch your heating on manually? It will be at the standard rate now though.

I really think you have been badly advised here. You should raise a complaint and after 8 weeks you can refer it to the ombudsman

Hi Terry

Helena's not here at the moment so hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in.

I'm not particularly technical but you're right about Heatwise meters being wired into the heating/water heating circuits. This is so they can take advantage of 10 hours off peak electricity for heating/water heating purposes.

Consequently, when a customer asks to switch to more conventional metering, we always recommend they arrange for a qualified approved electrician to check over the set up first.

As far as I understand, it's often advisable for the electrician to be present when the meter is changed in case any remedial work is necessary.

Anything beyond the meter is the customer's responsibility and not something our engineers will become involved with.

Helena - I thought Heatwise was a combination of a standard single rate meter on the primary MPAN plus the Heatwise off peak meter on a secondary MPAN? If so, surely by removing it there is no option but to bill on a single rate tariff from this point up to the switch, not E7.

Heatwise works alongside a conventional meter. This can either be a single rate or Economy 7.

If a customer no longer wants Heatwise but still has storage heaters, they're usually better off with Economy 7. From what the OP says in post number 8, it looks as though this has been done.

Hope this is of interest Terry.

Malc

muskrat16

Thanks Malc.
We are now seemingly getting some help, but I still have one question as I'm ignorant of such things.
on our last bill I noticed that I seem to have charged for the night tariff for both the e/com 7 and the heatwise meters, the only thing running in those hours is the emersion heater,as the central heating is still off. should I be paying two charges both showing clearly night tariff.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi muskrat

Glad one of our guys is helping sort this for you.

Did the last bill include a period before and up to the meter exchange in July?

If it did, there will be a part for usage going through the Heatwise meter before it was removed. This will be charged at a similar rate to the usage recorded on the night register on the conventional Economy 7 meter. It will, though, be shown separately and will include any electricity used by the immersion heater.

If the charges are for electricity used after the Heatwise was removed, then you should only have one night rate charge. This is for all night usage through the Economy 7 meter.

Looking at Helena's earlier post, it looks as though there's been a delay updating everything. It may be this has affected the billing. I would certainly ask the advisor helping you about this.

Hope this is of some help muskrat. Give me a shout if you need any more info as will be happy to help.

Malc

Terrylw1

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Hi Terry

Helena's not here at the moment so hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in.

I'm not particularly technical but you're right about Heatwise meters being wired into the heating/water heating circuits. This is so they can take advantage of 10 hours off peak electricity for heating/water heating purposes.

Consequently, when a customer asks to switch to more conventional metering, we always recommend they arrange for a qualified approved electrician to check over the set up first.

As far as I understand, it's often advisable for the electrician to be present when the meter is changed in case any remedial work is necessary.

Anything beyond the meter is the customer's responsibility and not something our engineers will become involved with.

Heatwise works alongside a conventional meter. This can either be a single rate or Economy 7.

If a customer no longer wants Heatwise but still has storage heaters, they're usually better off with Economy 7. From what the OP says in post number 8, it looks as though this has been done.

Hope this is of interest Terry.

Malc

Thanks Malc,

There are some issues that you might want to help the OP with:

- the storage heaters are no longer working per post #8 which suggests the connection from the meter to the off peak circuit is no longer in place. This needs investigating because if an engineer finds there is an off peak load, unless advised otherwise, he should abort. The OP states they are wired to E7 but that suggests the consumer unit, not the meter so I suspect that the engineer has cut this off in error. It could be miscommunication as the instruction your guys sent could have stated the customer wants this and just booked a meter removal...so if the engineer doesn't check for any load...

- the billing seems to be an issue as they have gone onto standard rather than E7. This further suggests they have a single rate meter hence any heating they switch on manually or via a private time switch, will be at standard rates.

In terms of an electrician, they provide a contractors completion certificate for any work done so the engineer knows its safe. The engineer will do his job so if the electrician has more to do, it won't impact the job. If the customer has had an isolated fitted, its easier since the electrician can insert tails into those I believe.

A consideration for replacing this to E7, if these were 2 seperate meters is tail length. The electrician may need to extend them prior to the job.

Are you sure Heatwise can be fit with E7? Its been a while since I've looked at these meters but with Day, Night & Heat it would normally mean these circuits are needed in the consumer unit.

I would have to check the Market Domain Data (MDD) to be sure on the E7. What worries me is that E7 is classed as time switched but in complex meter arrangements such as Superdeal, Warmwise, 3 rate dual MPAN E10, etc...the Day & Night are not time switched like E7 and only the Heat is.

I really think this customer needs to contact you guys. I'm wondering what the data flows all say on this one and switching won't solve that storage heater issue.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Thanks Malc,

There are some issues that you might want to help the OP with:

- the storage heaters are no longer working per post #8 which suggests the connection from the meter to the off peak circuit is no longer in place. This needs investigating because if an engineer finds there is an off peak load, unless advised otherwise, he should abort. The OP states they are wired to E7 but that suggests the consumer unit, not the meter so I suspect that the engineer has cut this off in error. It could be miscommunication as the instruction your guys sent could have stated the customer wants this and just booked a meter removal...so if the engineer doesn't check for any load...

Hi Terry

Might be completely wide of the mark here, but the way I read post 8 is that the storage heaters haven't been used since July because of the summer months rather than not actually working. As I say, though, could just be my interpretation.

- the billing seems to be an issue as they have gone onto standard rather than E7. This further suggests they have a single rate meter hence any heating they switch on manually or via a private time switch, will be at standard rates.

Heatwise is usually fitted alongside a conventional Economy 7 meter. However, if a customer prefers, this can still be charged on a single rate tariff. All we do is add the day and night usage together and charge as a single rate.

I suspect, if the switch had gone through quickly during the summer, the OP may have benefited from a single rate tariff. The more we go into winter, though, the more likely they'll be better off with Economy 7 particularly when the storage heaters come into play.

In terms of an electrician, they provide a contractors completion certificate for any work done so the engineer knows its safe. The engineer will do his job so if the electrician has more to do, it won't impact the job. If the customer has had an isolated fitted, its easier since the electrician can insert tails into those I believe.

A consideration for replacing this to E7, if these were 2 seperate meters is tail length. The electrician may need to extend them prior to the job.

Sorry Terry but, as I said previously, I'm not particularly technical and some of this is beyond my knowledge.

Are you sure Heatwise can be fit with E7? Its been a while since I've looked at these meters but with Day, Night & Heat it would normally mean these circuits are needed in the consumer unit.

I would have to check the Market Domain Data (MDD) to be sure on the E7. What worries me is that E7 is classed as time switched but in complex meter arrangements such as Superdeal, Warmwise, 3 rate dual MPAN E10, etc...the Day & Night are not time switched like E7 and only the Heat is.

Absolutely certain. I've seen many cases where Economy 7 is fitted alongside Heatwise. In fact, I've seen more with Economy 7 than those fitted with a single rate meter.

I really think this customer needs to contact you guys. I'm wondering what the data flows all say on this one and switching won't solve that storage heater issue.

Agree, and from post 16, it looks as though one of our advisors are on the case. Hopefully, they'll be able to sort it.

Hope this answers some of your points Terry.

Malc

muskrat16

Update on our ongoing battle with Eon!

We finally managed to switch to Scottish Power - but not without a struggle (took 4 months).

We've also found out just why we were being charged so much - EON had made billing errors, which we had to find and prove!So much for their 'experts'!
Although now we are direct contact with the Director's Complaint Office, they are still using delaying tactics. Bearing in mind, we have had 12 months of overpaying (due to their errors) and that fact they are sitting on around £1100.00 of our money - is it any wonder we are livid?

We have started proceedings with the EO, but are rather concerned this could cause even more delays (having read some of the posts here). So we are considering taking this higher, to the county court. Watch this space!!!