Damp Survey Disputed - Please Help!

Bowler36

Long time reader but new poster on these forums, I'm hoping someone can offer some advice.

I have had an offer accepted on a ground floor flat victorian end of terrace in London. I had the Homebuyers survey carried out which highlighted probable damp in the kitchen. I followed this up with an independent damp and timber specialist who found evidence from looking through the cellar that a few of the timber joists under the kitchen were rotten and one was completely away from its fitting in the wall. He stated that this was due to the damp proof course being below the level of the external ground. To take out the kitchen, floor, replace timbers and dpc, lower external ground outside and refit kitchen id be looking at between £5-8K.

Showed the results to the vendors for either a retention or a price reduction. They ordered their own survey (through the EA's damp company Kiltox, who had previously carried out work under guarantee). They came back saying the timber joist that had dropped was not under the kitchen but under a passage way cupboard and wasn't worth replacing. Whilst they also said there was evidence of damp that would need treating in the kitchen, as the kitchen floor couldn't be removed they couldn't estimate cost.

The vendor is refusing to come down on price (already reduced by 15K to the stamp duty threshold). I am a FTB, and negotiated price based on what was seen prior to survey.

Is it likely my surveyor was wrong about survey/price to remedy? Am I being unreasonable in asking for a price negotiation?

Due to delays in gaining access for surveys and a tight deadline up the chain exchange is approaching in the next week. I am very keen on the house but wondering whether it would be sensible to walk.

I apologise for the long essay but wanted to give all the facts, I'd appreciate any advice seasoned experts can offer!

BTW EA's surveyor guarantee covers damp proofing to kitchen wall but not floor and timbers

anselld

Can the timbers not be treated/ reinforced from below via the cellar?

motherofstudents

I think the vendor should think very carefully if he does not want to lose you especially so close to exchange. It is clear there is a damp problem which you could not have been expected to know about from just viewing the property. While I think the estimate seems very high, I am not familiar with London prices.

If you can't lift the floor to get a proper 'quote' I would be considering whether you want to continue. Would you want to go ahead at the agreed price and then pay £5-8 ? At the price you have offered plus the cost to repair, is it still good value or would you be paying over the odds ?

The damp company seem to be agreeing that there is a damp problem, will they not carry out the repairs under their guarantee ? If I have read it correctly they may sort out the wall ? I think I would be seriously putting pressure on the vendor to help you out towards the cost.

Bowler36

Thanks for the fast responses!

My surveyor did say that those timbers that weren't too bad could probably just be treated, but ofcourse without getting the floor up its a bit of an unknown. For that reason I do slightly sympathise with the sellers, but as my survey highlighted at least one joist rotted away from its fitting i am concerned the others won't be in a much better state and a few at least will need replacing.

I still think the agreed price was good for area, size etc but Im just worried about structural works like this having no experience of them and no idea whether hidden extras could come out of the woodwork. I also don't know much about these guarantees and who decides whether the work is or isn't necessary and is covered by them (i guess some threads on here that might answer that one!)

Fire_Fox

Why didn't you have a full structural survey on an older property? You would have had a better bargaining tool, hopefully more knowledge and idea about likely costs. What are the qualifications of your damp specialist and what are those of the Kiltox representative? Could you lift a small area of floor and get an inspection camera down there?

All joist are important, they help distribute the weight of whatever is above, if one goes the extra strain is placed on other timbers. Ignore a survey/ fail to maintain and you are not insured. Also your next buyer's surveyor could flag up the very same issue.

If this is a leasehold flat are you sure none of the work is the liability of the freeholder? Who installed the floor and whatever is outside above the DPC?

olly300

Both surveyors agree there is a damp problem but aren't sure where it is as the vendor hasn't been very co-operative on access. As the vendor refuses to budge on price and you don't know how much it will cost to fix I would say walk.

Even if you could afford the £5-8K, repairs particularly on older houses often end up costing more than initially estimated due to the other things that are uncovered.

If the vendor was serious about you buying the property they would:
1. Have made sure you could have got access very easily to the property.
2. Offered to negotiate on the estimated cost.

While the bottom hasn't fallen out of the London market some properties in some places have become harder to sell due to their location, the fact the rental yield isn't any good and the lack of mortgage availability.

BTW I don't think the estimate is very high for the amount of work that needs doing as I live in London. One thing the vendor has forgotten is that the work will cause anyone who takes it on a lot of hassle.

abankerbutnotafatcat

I think you need to decide how much you want this property knowing what the potential outlay and disruption could be. London has many micro climates and in some of them there will be a buyer waiting to replace you. Only you know these things. My only advice is only buy a property of that age if you have the resources to fund any maintenance issues that may crop up unseen by the survey. Good luck!!

paddyrg

Be aware, many independent damp 'experts' are salesmen who will find evidence of damp in Dubai. http://www.askjeff.co.uk/rising_damp.html

antrobus

Bowler36 wrote: »

.. an independent damp and timber specialist who found evidence from looking through the cellar that a few of the timber joists under the kitchen were rotten and one was completely away from its fitting in the wall. ..

I'm not sure it matters whether or not the timber joists concerned are under the kitchen or a passageway cupboard, they're clearly intended to hold something up, and if at least one has come away from its fitting, something's going to come down eventually.

Bowler36 wrote: »

... I am very keen on the house but wondering whether it would be sensible to walk....

Being neither a builder nor a surveyor, I can't give you any advice as such. All I can say is that if I was in your position, I would walk away now.

Bowler36

Hi all, thanks for the responses again. I decided to take the surveys to a friend who's an estate agent. They have someone local to me who has experience with the type of work and should be able to do it for cheaper (obviously never any guarantees). I negotiated with the seller for a retention of 4k to go towards any repairs. I wouldve probably paid a little more for the flat if it hadn't been for the stamp duty threshold, so Im happy to match the extra 1-4k if it comes to it (just fingers crossed it isn't more)