Lease car - "parking charge" invoice

jiggy2

Hi all,

I have been reading this forum for a while and need some comments / input on my situation from the knowledgeable people.

Scenario is not very different to many others - have a lease car through my company. Got a parking "charge" invoice for overstaying in a supermarket car park.

If the invoice would have come straight to me - I would have obviously ignored.

But because the parking company - CP Plus Limited use ANPR the invoice was sent to the registered keeper (the lease company) who have paid the invoice and are now recharging it together with an admin fee.

Alleged offence took place on 18 August.
Lease company forwarded via email a copy on 14 September (the deadline for paying the "reduced" amount was 7 September).

In the next couple of posts I will include details of what I have done so far (thanks to information from the MacBudman thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3748269). The problem is that the lease company has paid the amount and have said it will get deducted from my net salary (expected at end of September). So not sure how I go about getting them to refund the amount besides just emailing / complaining to them i.e. is it small claims court?

Thanks for your help.

jiggy2

Dear Xx,

In accordance with the [Xxxx Company] Carflex scheme guidelines, we are advising you of a salary deduction in respect of the following:

Copy of invoice [removed as includes registration numbr]



Please see a breakdown of the costs incurred below:

Element

Fee

Fine (If the issuing authority is the Police they will send you the original directly to yourself):
£70.00
Administration fee for the fine (please note this is applied to all fines and is non-negotiable):
£30.00
Total deduction from your salary:
£100.00

Hitachi will pay for your fine on your behalf within the given period in order to prevent a higher penalty fee being incurred.

Our policy on fines is explained under the F.A.Q. section of the Carflex website, which states under subsection no. 45 that:

“ You are responsible for all parking fines, fixed penalties, camera offences, bus lane contraventions and congestion charges incurred. The leasing company will pay any fines or contraventions on your behalf and will recharge the amount incurred plus an administration fee to Company. The scheme administrator will notify you of any such charge and this amount will be deducted from your net salary. ”

jiggy2

My reply to that was:

Hi,

Thank you for your email. Firstly, I note that your email refers in various places to paying ‘fines’. A private company cannot issue a fine or penalty - only a Local Authority or Police can. You will also note that the invoice from CP Plus Limited makes no mention of a fine.

The CarFlex terms and conditions that I am signed up to states:

You agree that any Notice of Intended Prosecutions, Penalty Charge Notices or Congestion Charges are your personal responsibility and if incurred any fine and administration fee together with VAT will be recharged to you and deducted from your net salary. If your net salary does not cover the outstanding monies, the balance may be recovered from you as a debt.

The invoice issued by CP Plus Limited does not fall into any of the above categories. Please can you therefore confirm to me which particular point above you are relying on in order to recharge the costs? If the amount mentioned below is deducted from my salary [The Lease Company] will be in breach of the contract I have in place (as [The Lease Company] will be making a deduction that has not been agreed to).

I have attached a copy of a proforma letter obtained from the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association website (which I understand is your trade body) which BVRLA suggests should be sent to any private parking firm if it were to issue any such invoices. Please do let me know if you require the link to BVRLA’s website.

Further under contract law, you may be aware that a contract entered into by a driver using a private parking facility involves no other parties than the driver and the operator of that facility. You will also therefore understand that despite Hitachi being the registered keeper of a vehicle that has entered a private parking facility, a rental company such as yourselves is not a party to such a contract and therefore has no liability or responsibility towards either the driver or the operator of the facility, no way of knowing what terms if any were agreed and no legal position to decide the validity of any claim made under that contract.

Please can you therefore confirm that you will NOT be paying the invoice that CP Plus Limited has issued? I will deal with the matter directly with them.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss.

To which they replied:

Hi Me

As the below notification is seen as a parking fine, we have paid this as per our policy with Company xxx.

To have the fine refunded, please can you supply us with evidence from the company that they have overturned the fine, until we have received this we will not refund the fine to yourdelf.

Kind regards

My response:

Hi,

Thank you for your email.

Legally the invoice from CP Plus Limited is not a parking fine.

Further (as noted below) I have only agreed in the Carflex terms and conditions to being recharged to Notice of Intended Prosecutions, Penalty Charge Notices or Congestion Charges. The invoice falls into none of these.

Please can you therefore provide me with details of your complaints policy and if there is a reference number that I need to use.

jiggy2

Their reply:

Hi Me

The notification below is a penalty charge notice. I have spoken to the car team at Compny xxx and they are in agreement with me.

As I mentioned if you get the fine overturned we will refund you. If not, the charge and deduction will stand.

Kind regards

To which my reply:

Hi ,

The notification from CP Plus below is not a Penalty Charge Notice. I presume you are aware of the distinction between who can and cannot issue Penalty Charge Notices (only the police and councils have the legal rights under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to issue Penalty Charge Notices).

The issue here is that the proposed deduction being made is not in accordance with the Carflex terms and conditions (irrespective of whether the notification gets overturned by CP Plus Limited). It is also against industry advice from your own trade body (The British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association).

Please could you therefore provide me details with your complaints policy and also the name of the person you spoke to at the car team at Company xxx.

Thanks

bazster

As you say, it's a parking "charge" invoice. It is not a parking fine or any kind of fine, it is not a fixed penalty or any kind of penalty, it is not a camera offence or any kind of offence, and it is obviously not a bus lane contravention or congestion charge.

So, the deduction from your salary is outwith the terms of the scheme. To what extent you are prepared to go to battle with your employers over it only you can say.

Assuming that the certain Japanese electronics company mentioned about 2/3 of the way down your post is your employer, you might want to edit that.

taffy056

Its not as fine, its not issued by an authority. I would ask to see the lease agreement as the likelihood is that private parking invoices are not covered under it. It will probably mention fines and penalties in it. Which means that they have broken their own terms for the lease.

You need to show your company this printout below from fleetnews

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/5/28/question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/30698/

The lease company has actually gonne against their own trade body's advice on how to handle these fake tickets, as you can see below.

http://www.bvrla.co.uk/Document/Default.aspx?DocumentUid=414FF3D6-AD18-40A6-AD36-E752FF29805B
http://www.bvrla.co.uk/Document/Default.aspx?DocumentUid=C7BE368C-3A76-49DB-8540-77DBC0C931B0

Also take a look at this pepipoo thread that deals with this issue.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531

taffy056

In light of the further posts, insist on the return of your money or you will issue proceedings against them, they cannot view it as a fine, because it is not one.

jiggy2

bazster wrote: »

As you say, it's a parking "charge" invoice. It is not a parking fine or any kind of fine, it is not a fixed penalty or any kind of penalty, it is not a camera offence or any kind of offence, and it is obviously not a bus lane contravention or congestion charge.

So, the deduction from your salary is outwith the terms of the scheme. To what extent you are prepared to go to battle with your employers over it only you can say.

Assuming that the certain Japanese electronics company mentioned about 2/3 of the way down your post is your employer, you might want to edit that.

Thanks for your input. The company mentioned is the lease company.

In terms of how far I am prepared to battle: I was thinking of going through the lease company complaints procedure and then issuing a letter before action (but stopping at that point) - in which case I might be fighting a losing battle (but atleast it will make them work for the "admin" charge.

taffy056

jiggy2 wrote: »

Thanks for your input. The company mentioned is the lease company.

In terms of how far I am prepared to battle: I was thinking of going through the lease company complaints procedure and then issuing a letter before action (but stopping at that point) - in which case I might be fighting a losing battle (but atleast it will make them work for the "admin" charge.

Why stop at a LBA? their own terms and conditions doesn't allow for this, they are breaking their own agreement, and trust me they know they are, these companies just want the admin charge. Tell them that you will issue against them, you will get your money back if you are determined to do so. Also I surge you to read the pepipoo thread I linked to for you.

bazster

jiggy2 wrote: »

Thanks for your input. The company mentioned is the lease company.

In terms of how far I am prepared to battle: I was thinking of going through the lease company complaints procedure and then issuing a letter before action (but stopping at that point) - in which case I might be fighting a losing battle (but atleast it will make them work for the "admin" charge.

Thanks for clarifying.

My concern is this: it is not Hitachi who will take your money, it's your employer. The lease company can't make a deduction from your salary.

I fear it's your employer you are going to have to fight over this, and if you are willing to do that then best start before they make the deduction from your salary.

jiggy2

bazster wrote: »

As you say, it's a parking "charge" invoice. It is not a parking fine or any kind of fine, it is not a fixed penalty or any kind of penalty, it is not a camera offence or any kind of offence, and it is obviously not a bus lane contravention or congestion charge.

The above terms (i.e. parking fine, fixed penalty, camera offences, bus lane contraventions and congestion charges incurred) were included in the FAQs.

The Terms and conditions document says Notice of Intended Prosecutions, Penalty Charge Notices or Congestion Charges and this is what obviously is legally binding.

So I plan to just refer to the T&Cs - as FAQs wouldn't be binding (and in any case don't help the lease company's case).