why aren't public sector salaries linked to how well the country does?

zagubov

Oldfatgrumpy wrote: »

So you reduce public sector wages - for the ones getting more than minimum wage, I presume - and as a result, the amount received by the Treasury in income tax from those workers (a large proportion of the working population) is reduced, thereby lowering the figure to which their salary is pegged, so their wages are reduced...

During the Thatcher years a paper ran a commentary of monetarist policy which went:

You sack a teacher, so...

he can't buy a Mini Metro, so....

you sack a British Leyland worker, so he doesn't need steel, so,,,

you sack a steelworker, so he doesn't need coal, so...

you sack a miner, so he can't afford a holiday, so....

a seaside landlady goes out of business.:(:eek:

vivatifosi

BobQ wrote: »

Note that most public sector workers will not be on a final salary pension scheme after 2015 and some are already on a career average pension.

I'm on a career average and joined over 3 years ago, it was already in place then. I'd also add that for many lower paid public sector workers (those on under say £15-16k) that I know don't even take up the pension offer as they can't afford to save for the future. A particular issue is that they haven't just had a pay freeze, but a pay cut with the loss of enhancements and weighting. I think this is a particularly difficult angle. If you are low paid to start with - whether in the public or private sector - then you are going to struggle more when wages start to be frozen/cut than someone on an above average wage.

Eellogofusciouhipoppokunu

BobQ wrote: »

Note that most public sector workers will not be on a final salary pension scheme after 2015 and some are already on a career average pension.

You say 'career average' as though it's a dirty word. The fact remains is that it's still way beyond what most people in the private sector receives, will be funded by future tax payers (and hence is a PONZI scheme by any other name) and is not subject to investment risks.

Its time to move the public sector onto money purchase schemes. The economy would receive a boost from all that investment and future taxpayers will have the tax burden lifted a little bit at least.

ruggedtoast

The_White_Horse wrote: »

sorry i wasn't clear - the public sector salaries and pensions should solely come out of what is raised through income tax and adjusted accordingly. therefore, if we say in year one £1bn is raised in income tax, then public workers get x. If in year two, £900m is raised, the public sector get an equivalent reduction. If it goes up, then so does their pay. easy.

Considering MPs and everyone who works in the Treasury are all public sector workers too, I can see dangers in linking public sector pay to income tax.

chewmylegoff

Naf wrote: »

This should apply to MPs, though.
I think they ought to be made to live on the pittance they call 'minimum wage'; no expenses and made to spend their own savings before they receive any state benefits. Then see how quickly they reform the system.

look at the dross that currently gets attracted to the job when it pays c.£60,000 and imagine how much worse it would be (if that is possible) if it only paid minimum wage.

p.s. not really sure why it's an outrage that one should have to spend their own savings before claiming state benefits, but there you go.

StevieJ

ILW wrote: »

oddly, if you ever end up chatting to a bunch of social workers, the word that seems to come up most is "career". Care is barely mentioned.

Of course it is mentioned 'CAREer'

ILW

zagubov wrote: »

During the Thatcher years a paper ran a commentary of monetarist policy which went:

You sack a teacher, so...

he can't buy a Mini Metro, so....

you sack a British Leyland worker, so he doesn't need steel, so,,,

you sack a steelworker, so he doesn't need coal, so...

you sack a miner, so he can't afford a holiday, so....

a seaside landlady goes out of business.:(:eek:

Or

You sack a teacher

He cannot buy a Volkswagon

A German worker loses their job

All the other tax payers get a tiny little bit more due to the cut in public spending.

they spend it in local pubs etc.

Increased net tax for the UK economy.

ruggedtoast

ILW wrote: »

Or

You sack a teacher

He cannot buy a Volkswagon

A German worker loses their job

All the other tax payers get a tiny little bit more due to the cut in public spending.

they spend it in local pubs etc.

Increased net tax for the UK economy.

I'm sure teachers have some economic output other than just buying Volkswagens.

ILW

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I'm sure teachers have some economic output other than just buying Volkswagens.

It is open to debate whether it exceeds their cost or not though.

ruggedtoast

ILW wrote: »

It is open to debate whether it exceeds their cost or not though.

I'm not sure how many Volkswagens you think someone on £20k a year is going to buy anyway.