light boxes, are these any good?

esuhl

Dave_C wrote: »

Thinking about it for a little more, evolution should already have weeded out humans who could not adapt to the changing seasonal cycles of night and day.
If stone-age Ugh couldn't be pestered to go out hunting because he was a bit depressed what with with the long nights drawing in and all; then he and the rest of his cave-hold would go hungry .

So... let me get this straight... You're saying that depression doesn't exist because evolution would have selected against it?

How do you know that the causes of depression are purely genetic? And, even if the causes are genetic, how do you know that the genetic encoding for "depression" can be isolated from any evolutionarily beneficial traits?

So you really think that every "suicide" is actually murder? If no one ever gets depressed, and unhelpful psychological disorders have been "weeded out" by evolution, then... surely that's the only explanation?!

It certainly seems to raise a lot more questions than it answers!

fishybusiness

So you really think that every "suicide" is actually murder? If no one ever gets depressed, and unhelpful psychological disorders have been "weeded out" by evolution, then... surely that's the only explanation?!

Just how did you get there from where Dave_C's comments started?

@Dave_C

Thinking about it for a little more, evolution should already have weeded out humans who could not adapt to the changing seasonal cycles of night and day.

If you consider Seasonal Affective Disorder as a form of low mood, i.e. depression, a large number of sufferers of depression function in the world and are capable of survival. The debate regarding nature/ nurture in the case of depressive symptoms will always run, and even at a 50/50 split, environment would have a significant influence on the causes of depression, and the course it runs through a persons life.

Taking that forward, people that suffer with depression in any form are not likely to be wiped out due to the 'survival of the fittest' scenario, and those suffering SAD have even less chance of being wiped out.

Perhaps SAD is a problem of our societies, we fight darkness with light bulbs, we fight winter with central heating.........In the dark old ages SAD may have been the body's to slow a person down enough to almost hibernate through a cold winter, and maybe some people still feel the need to do that.

The research seems complicated, some studies suggest light therapy is as successful as antidepressants in stabilising mood, some suggest 2 hours of morning light is much more important than evening light. Overall the bias is towards light therapy being effective

johnmc

No direct experience of these. I do, however, no someone who got really bad from October onward.

Using a light box helped greatly.

I worked for a number of years in an office with no windows. Regardless of the time of year I had to go for a walk at lunchtime.

Fitting a very bright desk lamp helped a lot.

Precis; in the grand scheme of things they are not expensive so give it a try.

Dave_C_2

As usual, jumping in with both feet before doing research, it's time for Dave to eat some humble pie - yummy.
There is evidence to support the use of light boxes etc. to treat SAD.
Apologies if I've upset anyone.

But I still stick to my comment about never underestimating the power of placebo.:)

Dave

Torry_Quine

Dave_C wrote: »

As usual, jumping in with both feet before doing research, it's time for Dave to eat some humble pie - yummy.
There is evidence to support the use of light boxes etc. to treat SAD.
Apologies if I've upset anyone.

But I still stick to my comment about never underestimating the power of placebo.:)

Dave

Good for you. It shows strength of character to admit you were wrong. :T

esuhl

fishybusiness wrote: »

Just how did you get there from where Dave_C's comments started?

This is academic now but...

He implied that SAD can't "really" exist because evolution would have selected strongly in favour of non-depressed individuals because of their inability to provide for their "cave-hold" (although presumably if they had a cave-full they may well have procreated and fulfilled their evolutionary imperative already).

Seeing as it is the depression that (supposedly) reduces their chances of procreation and not the absence of sunlight itself, Dave's initial theory isn't specific to SAD; he was effectively saying that depression cannot exist.

If depression doesn't exist, depressive suicide cannot exist... so how can the suicide figures be explained? Murder seems the only other possibly coherent alternative.

Having suffered from depression and anxiety myself I was a bit upset that the very existence of depression should be called into question...

Dave_C wrote: »

As usual, jumping in with both feet before doing research, it's time for Dave to eat some humble pie - yummy.
There is evidence to support the use of light boxes etc. to treat SAD.
Apologies if I've upset anyone.

But I still stick to my comment about never underestimating the power of placebo.:)

No worries, mate! I'd go along with that. Placebos certainly have an effect (sometimes even when the person taking them is told that it's a placebo!). The human brain is the most puzzling "machine" in existence!

fishybusiness

Having suffered from depression and anxiety myself I was a bit upset that the very existence of depression should be called into question...

Yup, and in some parts of the world it does not exist......well it is not acknowledged!

bod1467

My wife uses a lightbox during the winter months and feels she gets some benefit from it. Whether it is a placebo effect or not is really irrelevant - if the patient feels a benefit then it is working.

I can't remember the make/model she has (it's in the loft at the moment) but it's not unlike this one, although it wasn't bought from Amazon.

ETA - this is what the wife has, although she didn't pay as much as that.

Hannah2

Hi

I have an older version of the litebook http://www.litebook.co.uk/ I was very sceptical but now wouldnt be without it. The advantage is they offer a 60 day money back guarantee so if you dont find any improvement you havent lost anything!

HTH

H2 x

AndysDad

Hannah2 wrote: »

Hi

I have an older version of the litebook http://www.litebook.co.uk/ I was very sceptical but now wouldnt be without it. The advantage is they offer a 60 day money back guarantee so if you dont find any improvement you havent lost anything!

HTH

H2 x

Doesn't seem to give much information about the lamp considering its £150.Just looks like an array of white/bluish LEDS.looks like you could make your own for under a tenner.